"crowd control" implies controlling crowds...as in... multiple targets. That rockfall only hits one target, if my memory serves me correct. Longer distance on mountain press means absolutely nothing when u gotta walk 5 more meters to follow-up with an attack.. unless you plan on kiting the edge for that max mount press, which makes you useless to my team, as i need mages that dont fear the frontlines lol.The higher chance of paralize is nice, but once again, not intended for crowds. The sand one again, isnt an aoe, and doesnt count towards crowd control, and leads more towards my statement that the demon mage excells in single target battles (as you can prevent a single target from touching you). The higher paralize chance on hailstorm is lovely, but does not compensate for the lack of effectiveness in its other skills. demon dooms can still use more chi, making them less effective when holy mages can cast that extra ulti. Did i mention holy mages zhen can stun? Yeah, ive used it in close quarter mass pk against multiple enemies, and it works wonders.So yeah... dont quote my crowd control if your going to name 2 out of 3 skills that dont even apply xDAlso, that pdef means nothing when dark ironrock/pierce/devour/OP genie skills get involved... kiss that pdef goodbye xDMageTank
NOT ALL CLASSES MADE FOR PVP SOME WERE MADE FOR PVE
and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.MageTank
with sage mages remaining supreme as the crowd control/support mage
Sage used to hit harder before undine came into the equation and the masteries give 2-3% damage
I've played wiz for 3-4 years now, both sage and demon. I played mainly on 1.3.6 servers where sage was the shizz (Unless you wanted to be an instafag) but unfortunately sage has lost most of its strong points due the 79 skill and genies (Really wish they were never added).
spark on their genie
Kiting is just an excuse to run in battle.
and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.
Sage is better in support, why? well easy: lower chi cost in total.. in long term pvps like TW it's rly hard to get chi at a frequent rate so lower cost= easier avaible skills... and thats pretty much it.Demon having better effects is better in the start, but later on the lack of chi gets rather hard to cover for.As being said before, it comes down situations, playstyle, genies etc..30sec may seem like much and you think you will have your sparks by then.. but when being in constant battle chi disappears fast, and some tws lasts for hours. (ill just completely skip the rest since its out of my head ).
How to support with a holy mage, by MageTank:Lesson 1: Know your support skillsTo support, is to help a team by using your skills in combination with theirs, to mutually benefit the team. How can you do this? Simple!-Sage seal has an aoe, allowing you to save your allies from multiple targets!-Sage skills use less chi, giving you the chance to cast 3 dooms!-Sage mages also gain chi faster, allowing more support, more often. An example is using your chi on wisdom sutra, to instant cast heals on your allies.-Sage mages heal has a 10% chance to heal 100% hp of target, allowing you to fully heal a near death werebeast to full hp with a single heal. When combined with wisdom sutra's speed, you can cast 5 heals in 5 seconds, dramatically increasing your odds to fully heal someone.-Sage mage also has a zhen that has a 20% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds every wave. During TW, this allows a mage to defend the crystal while stunning nearby enemies, resulting in amazing support.For Lesson 2, please send $20 to the "MageTank is rich, but wants to be richer" foundation.MageTank
I can tell your one of those "pwi mages" that play their classes only one way. Wizards (or mages, as i like to call them by their true name) are one of the best crowd control classes ever. Name another class that can "control crowds". I love how you claim kiting makes demons survive as much... Kiting is just an excuse to run in battle. Those who spend their time running, are not killing, and thus is not an asset in mass pk. Running is not a defense, as any class can do it. If we are going to call running a defense tactic, then the safezone is the ultimate defense rofl.As for the CC arguement, psy's cant drop groups as effectively as mages, so they are completely irrelevent to this thread. When psy's can start dropping 5-6 targets with one skill, then maybe, but until then, just no lol.You also used the word opponent, meaning single target. How is single target considered crowd control? I said 3 times already that demon is better for single target, please stop fortifying my original response while claiming im wrong.As for the arguement of sages "used to hit harder" is dead wrong. That extra 5% damage passive sages get, multiplies every single source of damage. Lets do an example!:Lets say i have a wep with 1k min magic attack, 2k max. I also have 700 int. This would make my base magic attack 9.2k-17.2k.Then we factor in other sources of damage. Fury gives 700% weapon damage, which makes my damage 17.2k-32.2kThe spirit's gift buff from priests give 70% damage, making my damage 18k-33.7k.Now, we add the passives. Mages get 20% damage from their passives, which is added last in terms of damage boosting. This makes our damage 21,600-40,440... For a demon mage, that is. A sage mage will have more damage, as 5% more damage is factored in, from their passive. A sage mage's damage would be 22,500-42,125. That 5% damage also multiplies all sources of incoming damage, including magic attack stones on weapons, magic from wearing rings, int, even skill damage. After factoring in undine, a sage mage will still outdamage a demon one.After the morai skills are applied, arcane defense makes that 20% pdef from being demon seem less signifigant as the chances of dying to DPS builds are severely reduced, and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.MageTank
Crowd control is where a class can use CC skills on large amount of enemies to keep them in place, hailstorm and Mountain don't make the Wiz a CCer, infact a nuker.If you think that dropping nukes and killing people is CC then you're sadly mistaken, this is why Psy is best at CC because of the spamable Glacial shards, Vector ect. But yes, a Wiz is by far the better nuker, but thats not to say a Psy can't drop a group of people.Demon is still better in crowds because of the better proc on Hailstorm, Emberstorm if things get tricky and the range on mountain, again crowd control, not nuking.
And the mastieres really do only give about 3.X%, I remember it all being calculated by someone in the PWI forums
Since shadow cant really read what i post (as he seems to think i called hailstorm useless) ill just let someone else translate whatever he said lol.So for delirium:Distance shrink isnt running. Running is when you use your WASD keys to run from someone. Yeah, crowd controlling does involve control skills, but if you can kill a crowd instantly... im quite sure you just controlled them lol.With chi being easier for sage mages, they can use ice prison more effectively, whereas a demon mage can not, as they would never have the chi to use moistcuring for casting, ice, and then a doom, as they would then be chi-less. Also shadow, if your ep dies, and you never healed a cata puller in your life, then you fail massively. Catapult pullers mean more in TW than anything, and its your "job" keep them alive, be it by heals, or killing their aggressors...and you either do that job, or die trying. If my cata puller sqaud is falling, and the ep is not in sight, you best believe ill abuse my wisdom sutra heals and bring them back to full health. And to delirium: You dont notice a chi problem because you dont spam ulti's like i do (as a sage mage, i tend to get all 3 off without needing genies or pots, along with hailstorm aswell, resulting in 4 AOE skills in a row). I would have to say, sage mages get the benefit of the doubt in mass pk. Their synergistic combo's with other classes will be of more use, when compared to a demon mage sparking and dropping only 1 target before his genie has to cooldown. Want my advice between the two classes?Demon = best solo/single target mageSage = best support/multi target slaying mageWhile i still dont consider the single target skills crowd control... i guess since demon casts so fast, they could technically cast gush on more targets faster, slowing them down, so i suppose demon could be =/= in terms of CC.My advice for playing sage mage: Grab the aoe chi reduction skill for your genie, and the aoe chi gain skill that gives chi each time your team is hit. This will apply AOE support for both you and your team, along with removing chi from the enemies in a large radius. Use as many of your AOE's as possible, ice prison included, and just ruin multiple targets days. BTW: My holy mage is always in heavy armor.. and dropping a fully charged emberstorm is the most powerful AOE that anyone could possibly imagine. Combined with earthblaze (reduces fire def in an AOE, and stacks with spark) i was able to ice prison, cast ember, reduce 20% fire def of everything around me, and right when amp proc'd from ice, drop anything that stood close.Play your mages people! just dont whore spark around... that skill made my favorite class feel lame.MageTank
this wrong, u can test it here easily with high exp server, still +5% damage is pretty low so similiar like +5 att lv what isnt big deal same like demon effect on earth nuke