Fire those spells!

[shadowvzs]

"crowd control" implies controlling crowds...as in... multiple targets. That rockfall only hits one target, if my memory serves me correct. Longer distance on mountain press means absolutely nothing when u gotta walk 5 more meters to follow-up with an attack.. unless you plan on kiting the edge for that max mount press, which makes you useless to my team, as i need mages that dont fear the frontlines lol.

The higher chance of paralize is nice, but once again, not intended for crowds. The sand one again, isnt an aoe, and doesnt count towards crowd control, and leads more towards my statement that the demon mage excells in single target battles (as you can prevent a single target from touching you). The higher paralize chance on hailstorm is lovely, but does not compensate for the lack of effectiveness in its other skills. demon dooms can still use more chi, making them less effective when holy mages can cast that extra ulti. Did i mention holy mages zhen can stun? Yeah, ive used it in close quarter mass pk against multiple enemies, and it works wonders.

So yeah... dont quote my crowd control if your going to name 2 out of 3 skills that dont even apply xD

Also, that pdef means nothing when dark ironrock/pierce/devour/OP genie skills get involved... kiss that pdef goodbye xD

MageTank

so hailstorm and mountain size not applied well, ofc not even archer with dragon bow rape a wizz ass easily from 34m with paralyze and debuff

idk but in most of game with end game gear that dd win who stun 1st if we talk about long range
and about sage ulti, there also need 2 spark just u have chance for use only 1 but requiment for casting still 2 spark.

i am sage fun, i allways was sage wizz and i like it but i agree with others who say demon got enough davantage too...

[MageTank]

Hailstorm and mountain seize counts as crowd controlling skills, but the reason for which you applied demon mountain seize to be superior, is not really a benefit to the common mass pk situation. Its only real perk is to reach runners. In mass pk, where 2 forces are pushing each other back and forth, you need to remain close enough to fight, while far enough to escape. Mount seize for demon is nice, but if you cast it at its max distance, you still need to run 4-5 meters before you can attack again.

Demon hailstorm is a lovely skill, and definitly considered a crowd controling skill. Another crowd control skill that demons have over holy mages, is the demon emberstorm. It can cause an aoe stun... assuming the mage is not afraid to get close to his enemies.

My conclusion still stands though.. with sage mages remaining supreme as the crowd control/support mage, while demons will be the winner of the single target catagory. Sure, demon mages can still kill groups, and sage can still kill single targets, but each has perks that benefit certain situations more than others.

Between blazing giving 30 chi so often, and the skills using less chi, i just find doom spamming far easier as a holy mage resulting in more AOE damage xD

MageTank

[Delirium]

Since when has a wiz being classes as a "Crowd Controller"? They have never been so, and demon would fit the bill better than sage in this situation. A wiz is a nuker, anything beside this is fluff.

@The whole sage has more defense than demon because they can uphold their chi better, if you know how to kite and whatnot a demon can do just as well and I have played both, they do well in their own rights. If you want crowd control, go play a psychic otherwise leave it out.

You also forgot that demon isn't as chi reliant in kiting and killing as sage is as a demon can lock their opponent in place and not have to waste genie/chi on getting away from them while as sage you have to spam DS like a bish.

Sage used to hit harder before undine came into the equation and the masteries give 2-3% damage, I'd rather take the 3% chance to double my damage.

Slow channeling? Don't forget that channeling is capped and sage and demon both hit very fast as is, demon quaff isn't all that, I'd rather use my chi on something else.

I've played wiz for 3-4 years now, both sage and demon. I played mainly on 1.3.6 servers where sage was the shizz (Unless you wanted to be an instafag) but unfortunately sage has lost most of its strong points due the 79 skill and genies (Really wish they were never added). Though nothing beats a sage wiz for TW, chi is absolute crucial for TW, thats why I usually have a demon wiz for everyday PK and then bring out my sage for TWs. Then again since everyone gets spark on their genie I don't find wiz fun to play anymore, used to be a challenging class to play and now is just a faceroll.

[MageTank]

I can tell your one of those "pwi mages" that play their classes only one way. Wizards (or mages, as i like to call them by their true name) are one of the best crowd control classes ever. Name another class that can "control crowds". I love how you claim kiting makes demons survive as much... Kiting is just an excuse to run in battle. Those who spend their time running, are not killing, and thus is not an asset in mass pk. Running is not a defense, as any class can do it. If we are going to call running a defense tactic, then the safezone is the ultimate defense rofl.

As for the CC arguement, psy's cant drop groups as effectively as mages, so they are completely irrelevent to this thread. When psy's can start dropping 5-6 targets with one skill, then maybe, but until then, just no lol.

You also used the word opponent, meaning single target. How is single target considered crowd control? I said 3 times already that demon is better for single target, please stop fortifying my original response while claiming im wrong.

As for the arguement of sages "used to hit harder" is dead wrong. That extra 5% damage passive sages get, multiplies every single source of damage.

Lets do an example!:

Lets say i have a wep with 1k min magic attack, 2k max. I also have 700 int.

This would make my base magic attack 9.2k-17.2k.
Then we factor in other sources of damage. Fury gives 700% weapon damage, which makes my damage 17.2k-32.2k
The spirit's gift buff from priests give 70% damage, making my damage 18k-33.7k.
Now, we add the passives. Mages get 20% damage from their passives, which is added last in terms of damage boosting.

This makes our damage 21,600-40,440... For a demon mage, that is. A sage mage will have more damage, as 5% more damage is factored in, from their passive. A sage mage's damage would be 22,500-42,125. That 5% damage also multiplies all sources of incoming damage, including magic attack stones on weapons, magic from wearing rings, int, even skill damage. After factoring in undine, a sage mage will still outdamage a demon one.

After the morai skills are applied, arcane defense makes that 20% pdef from being demon seem less signifigant as the chances of dying to DPS builds are severely reduced, and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.

MageTank

[hotflamie]

and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.

MageTank

Im not involved in your discussion but... ima reply to that^..... So far only 1 wiz has a record in beating me (2-1 in vses) two wisez has tied (1-1 & 3-3) Rest of this games current wizes (and older ones) is in a - stat... srsly wizes are squisher than an ea is in wiz vs ea, atleast with new morais (arcane defense is meele.. bow is ranged so its rendered useless and anti crit thing does 0 difference to me<.<.... (just on a side note, i've only lost 2 vses in total against wizes since after i got my morais....
Thats just me tho... If other eas dont know how to fight wizes.. well.... but 'die before they become a threat' feels kind of insulting-.-''

[shadowvzs]

with sage mages remaining supreme as the crowd control/support mage

sorry but i got really why this is ur opinion since only advantage in cc whe u play with sage is the faster chi or chance for 1 spark cost (since have cloud eruption genie skill this isnt big deal)

but what about support ?
nnot supportive if demon can aoe stun from far and ur team can catch easier the target?
not supportive when u can stop enemies with hailstorm/emberstorm?
frostblade give more water eq attack?

sorry but i dont see any point why sage more supportiv or better crown control because i see only mountain size here what got 30 sec cooldown even u can have 1000000000000000000 spark.

Sage used to hit harder before undine came into the equation and the masteries give 2-3% damage

hm? what?

20%->25% is +2/3%?

how much boost when u have 40k base mattack?

I've played wiz for 3-4 years now, both sage and demon. I played mainly on 1.3.6 servers where sage was the shizz (Unless you wanted to be an instafag) but unfortunately sage has lost most of its strong points due the 79 skill and genies (Really wish they were never added).

rofl i play too since 2007 but the 79 dont made anything with sage, sage after udine still amplify with +5% the damage and if server not filled with +10000000000 grade equipment and with +50 att lv box then u need enough much the damage...

best example was the PW ms, there still with genies and 3rd spark+e.p.+frenzy +udine+crit with sage bids aint 1 hit a vit barb and for normal fight too u needed enough kite for that, 1 crit hit dont made 40% damage on barb even i got enough refine on my weapon there...

spark on their genie

that not was problem with 1st genie patch where still u got lower % also now not that much too if u dont have 80+/100 genie coz u need point for vit etc

mostly in private server abused and there where have high grade eq+high stat....

Kiting is just an excuse to run in battle.

before tideborn, a aps bm still was deadly if u let him close to u, kiteing is requiment in normal servers where u cant 1hit somebody with insine dmg and att lv etc.

and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.

true, just there need a word: WAS, now still squishy but got enough skill for assassinating somebody or escape vs melees, archer weapon buffs also make another class more squishy, just a debuff/purge proc and bb wiz/cleric, here u need luck+range what is archer style anyway....

another side the regulare game was in 1.3.6 even with genie was ok with 3 race then tideborn was out and
psy was kinda safer wizz (also wizz job was the ha killing and aoe like psy), assassint was a involved archer (coz archer was made for killing arcana class when was only 3 race)

//arent mean wizz/archer was bad vs another class just their role was that in team fight/tw before tideborn//

then morai instead nerf psy/sin, boosted the another 2 old class

[hotflamie]

Sage is better in support, why? well easy: lower chi cost in total.. in long term pvps like TW it's rly hard to get chi at a frequent rate so lower cost= easier avaible skills... and thats pretty much it.
Demon having better effects is better in the start, but later on the lack of chi gets rather hard to cover for.
As being said before, it comes down situations, playstyle, genies etc..
30sec may seem like much and you think you will have your sparks by then.. but when being in constant battle chi disappears fast, and some tws lasts for hours.
(ill just completely skip the rest since its out of my head ).

[shadowvzs]

Sage is better in support, why? well easy: lower chi cost in total.. in long term pvps like TW it's rly hard to get chi at a frequent rate so lower cost= easier avaible skills... and thats pretty much it.
Demon having better effects is better in the start, but later on the lack of chi gets rather hard to cover for.
As being said before, it comes down situations, playstyle, genies etc..
30sec may seem like much and you think you will have your sparks by then.. but when being in constant battle chi disappears fast, and some tws lasts for hours.
(ill just completely skip the rest since its out of my head ).

somehow for me that class is support what can help (buff/heal or another supportive thing) another people like cleric, coz i never heard about selfsupporting, maybe more chi economic hehe

[MageTank]

How to support with a holy mage, by MageTank:

Lesson 1: Know your support skills

To support, is to help a team by using your skills in combination with theirs, to mutually benefit the team. How can you do this? Simple!

-Sage seal has an aoe, allowing you to save your allies from multiple targets!
-Sage skills use less chi, giving you the chance to cast 3 dooms!
-Sage mages also gain chi faster, allowing more support, more often. An example is using your chi on wisdom sutra, to instant cast heals on your allies.
-Sage mages heal has a 10% chance to heal 100% hp of target, allowing you to fully heal a near death werebeast to full hp with a single heal. When combined with wisdom sutra's speed, you can cast 5 heals in 5 seconds, dramatically increasing your odds to fully heal someone.
-Sage mage also has a zhen that has a 20% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds every wave. During TW, this allows a mage to defend the crystal while stunning nearby enemies, resulting in amazing support.

For Lesson 2, please send $20 to the "MageTank is rich, but wants to be richer" foundation.

MageTank

[shadowvzs]

How to support with a holy mage, by MageTank:

Lesson 1: Know your support skills

To support, is to help a team by using your skills in combination with theirs, to mutually benefit the team. How can you do this? Simple!

-Sage seal has an aoe, allowing you to save your allies from multiple targets!
-Sage skills use less chi, giving you the chance to cast 3 dooms!
-Sage mages also gain chi faster, allowing more support, more often. An example is using your chi on wisdom sutra, to instant cast heals on your allies.
-Sage mages heal has a 10% chance to heal 100% hp of target, allowing you to fully heal a near death werebeast to full hp with a single heal. When combined with wisdom sutra's speed, you can cast 5 heals in 5 seconds, dramatically increasing your odds to fully heal someone.
-Sage mage also has a zhen that has a 20% chance to stun enemies for 3 seconds every wave. During TW, this allows a mage to defend the crystal while stunning nearby enemies, resulting in amazing support.

For Lesson 2, please send $20 to the "MageTank is rich, but wants to be richer" foundation.

MageTank

-sage seal is 3m radius, kinda damn rare situation, demon hailstorm less usefull? not really, that not 100% chance but atleast got a normal range not just 3m what is enough lol.

-genie with cloud erruption can be called support genie coz that also give to u chance for 3 ulti, and dont let forget the pharma potion, but wait? how much supportive ulti u got? 1? where demon version also have advantage in team fight....

-seriously lol if u start heal in tw instead do your job instead take cleric supportive job, mainly also coz atleast cleric a real supportive/buffer/healer class not like wizz

-barb + cleric enough already for keep barb alive if cleric not die and can support, wizz dont need supportive role on tw, maybe better if u try defend the cleric instead heal the barb?

-zhen is nice but if from 5 people stun 1 and all close to u and focus to u then u die faster than 3 sec
zhening at crystal more like "hello, i am a squishy target, please kill me".... most of class can stun, just give a stun/rambo and u are on ground, then far better the demon emberstor, u shoot when needed and jump back, or just use earth ulti from safe range

-so this point demon frost blade more usefull when u buff ur aps dd's, also this way all demon stunner skill support too coz u can save ur team mate from 1 or from more enemy

then following demon skills all supportive if i follow ur description:
Stone Rain, Hailstorm, Pitfall, Mountain Size, Force Will (if u say 3m radius is nice then -2sec cooldown also nice), Frostblade, Emberstorm, Blade Tempest (interupt every skill in 12m radius not supportive then?) etc etc

-

overall if u want heal then choose cleric, healing with ~highest dph class kinda waste of the class advantage in tw/group figth

[Delirium]

I can tell your one of those "pwi mages" that play their classes only one way. Wizards (or mages, as i like to call them by their true name) are one of the best crowd control classes ever. Name another class that can "control crowds". I love how you claim kiting makes demons survive as much... Kiting is just an excuse to run in battle. Those who spend their time running, are not killing, and thus is not an asset in mass pk. Running is not a defense, as any class can do it. If we are going to call running a defense tactic, then the safezone is the ultimate defense rofl.

As for the CC arguement, psy's cant drop groups as effectively as mages, so they are completely irrelevent to this thread. When psy's can start dropping 5-6 targets with one skill, then maybe, but until then, just no lol.

You also used the word opponent, meaning single target. How is single target considered crowd control? I said 3 times already that demon is better for single target, please stop fortifying my original response while claiming im wrong.

As for the arguement of sages "used to hit harder" is dead wrong. That extra 5% damage passive sages get, multiplies every single source of damage.

Lets do an example!:

Lets say i have a wep with 1k min magic attack, 2k max. I also have 700 int.

This would make my base magic attack 9.2k-17.2k.
Then we factor in other sources of damage. Fury gives 700% weapon damage, which makes my damage 17.2k-32.2k
The spirit's gift buff from priests give 70% damage, making my damage 18k-33.7k.
Now, we add the passives. Mages get 20% damage from their passives, which is added last in terms of damage boosting.

This makes our damage 21,600-40,440... For a demon mage, that is. A sage mage will have more damage, as 5% more damage is factored in, from their passive. A sage mage's damage would be 22,500-42,125. That 5% damage also multiplies all sources of incoming damage, including magic attack stones on weapons, magic from wearing rings, int, even skill damage. After factoring in undine, a sage mage will still outdamage a demon one.

After the morai skills are applied, arcane defense makes that 20% pdef from being demon seem less signifigant as the chances of dying to DPS builds are severely reduced, and archers are so squishy they die before they become a threat.

MageTank

I haven't played on PWI in 3 years, actually.

Running, or maybe what we call distance shrink and then paralyzing your opponent in place while you chi off them and get them to burn their genie whereas if you was sage they would still be running towards you being a threat giving to less time to have them under fire and as demon you could actually stop a few of them in one go. Unless you'd rather just sit there and let them hit you constantly?

Crowd control is where a class can use CC skills on large amount of enemies to keep them in place, hailstorm and Mountain don't make the Wiz a CCer, infact a nuker.
If you think that dropping nukes and killing people is CC then you're sadly mistaken, this is why Psy is best at CC because of the spamable Glacial shards, Vector ect. But yes, a Wiz is by far the better nuker, but thats not to say a Psy can't drop a group of people.

Demon is still better in crowds because of the better proc on Hailstorm, Emberstorm if things get tricky and the range on mountain, again crowd control, not nuking.

Oops, I forgot one word, I meant to say that they used to hit a lot harder, because of sage divine and masteries, it was much easier as sage back then. But undine pretty much ruined the advantage sage had in that respect. And the mastieres really do only give about 3.X%, I remember it all being calculated by someone in the PWI forums (This was when a lot of wizzes started going demon). And I'd still rather take 3% chance to double my damage, because when we nuke we want crits so we can destroy as many people in one go.

Theres no doubt that in the TW situation sage is far superior but in mass PK demon just has the edge in survivablity and well a dead mage isn't a useful one now is it?

PS, as demon I've never really had a chi problem, the extra chi from sage is beaut but as demon I can't say I've had much of a problem.

[MageTank]

Since shadow cant really read what i post (as he seems to think i called hailstorm useless) ill just let someone else translate whatever he said lol.

So for delirium:

Distance shrink isnt running. Running is when you use your WASD keys to run from someone. Yeah, crowd controlling does involve control skills, but if you can kill a crowd instantly... im quite sure you just controlled them lol.With chi being easier for sage mages, they can use ice prison more effectively, whereas a demon mage can not, as they would never have the chi to use moistcuring for casting, ice, and then a doom, as they would then be chi-less. Also shadow, if your ep dies, and you never healed a cata puller in your life, then you fail massively. Catapult pullers mean more in TW than anything, and its your "job" keep them alive, be it by heals, or killing their aggressors...and you either do that job, or die trying. If my cata puller sqaud is falling, and the ep is not in sight, you best believe ill abuse my wisdom sutra heals and bring them back to full health.

And to delirium: You dont notice a chi problem because you dont spam ulti's like i do (as a sage mage, i tend to get all 3 off without needing genies or pots, along with hailstorm aswell, resulting in 4 AOE skills in a row). I would have to say, sage mages get the benefit of the doubt in mass pk. Their synergistic combo's with other classes will be of more use, when compared to a demon mage sparking and dropping only 1 target before his genie has to cooldown. Want my advice between the two classes?

Demon = best solo/single target mage
Sage = best support/multi target slaying mage

While i still dont consider the single target skills crowd control... i guess since demon casts so fast, they could technically cast gush on more targets faster, slowing them down, so i suppose demon could be =/= in terms of CC.

My advice for playing sage mage: Grab the aoe chi reduction skill for your genie, and the aoe chi gain skill that gives chi each time your team is hit. This will apply AOE support for both you and your team, along with removing chi from the enemies in a large radius. Use as many of your AOE's as possible, ice prison included, and just ruin multiple targets days.

BTW: My holy mage is always in heavy armor.. and dropping a fully charged emberstorm is the most powerful AOE that anyone could possibly imagine. Combined with earthblaze (reduces fire def in an AOE, and stacks with spark) i was able to ice prison, cast ember, reduce 20% fire def of everything around me, and right when amp proc'd from ice, drop anything that stood close.

Play your mages people! just dont whore spark around... that skill made my favorite class feel lame.

MageTank

[shadowvzs]

not about u said hailstorm useless but u said few sage skill more supportive even most of time useless (like seal) compared with few demon (like hailstorm) what most of time got enough radius for be more usefull

Crowd control is where a class can use CC skills on large amount of enemies to keep them in place, hailstorm and Mountain don't make the Wiz a CCer, infact a nuker.
If you think that dropping nukes and killing people is CC then you're sadly mistaken, this is why Psy is best at CC because of the spamable Glacial shards, Vector ect. But yes, a Wiz is by far the better nuker, but thats not to say a Psy can't drop a group of people.

Demon is still better in crowds because of the better proc on Hailstorm, Emberstorm if things get tricky and the range on mountain, again crowd control, not nuking.

i agree with this (just i cant say wizz far better nuker, better nuker but not far better in pwi, here they got a bit nerf but still they are annoying enough much), wizz isnt support coz get few skill with a bit supportive effect, never was and never will be support also that part about cc is true

And the mastieres really do only give about 3.X%, I remember it all being calculated by someone in the PWI forums

this wrong, u can test it here easily with high exp server, still +5% damage is pretty low so similiar like +5 att lv what isnt big deal same like demon effect on earth nuke

[Delirium]

Since shadow cant really read what i post (as he seems to think i called hailstorm useless) ill just let someone else translate whatever he said lol.

So for delirium:

Distance shrink isnt running. Running is when you use your WASD keys to run from someone. Yeah, crowd controlling does involve control skills, but if you can kill a crowd instantly... im quite sure you just controlled them lol.With chi being easier for sage mages, they can use ice prison more effectively, whereas a demon mage can not, as they would never have the chi to use moistcuring for casting, ice, and then a doom, as they would then be chi-less. Also shadow, if your ep dies, and you never healed a cata puller in your life, then you fail massively. Catapult pullers mean more in TW than anything, and its your "job" keep them alive, be it by heals, or killing their aggressors...and you either do that job, or die trying. If my cata puller sqaud is falling, and the ep is not in sight, you best believe ill abuse my wisdom sutra heals and bring them back to full health.

And to delirium: You dont notice a chi problem because you dont spam ulti's like i do (as a sage mage, i tend to get all 3 off without needing genies or pots, along with hailstorm aswell, resulting in 4 AOE skills in a row). I would have to say, sage mages get the benefit of the doubt in mass pk. Their synergistic combo's with other classes will be of more use, when compared to a demon mage sparking and dropping only 1 target before his genie has to cooldown. Want my advice between the two classes?

Demon = best solo/single target mage
Sage = best support/multi target slaying mage

While i still dont consider the single target skills crowd control... i guess since demon casts so fast, they could technically cast gush on more targets faster, slowing them down, so i suppose demon could be =/= in terms of CC.

My advice for playing sage mage: Grab the aoe chi reduction skill for your genie, and the aoe chi gain skill that gives chi each time your team is hit. This will apply AOE support for both you and your team, along with removing chi from the enemies in a large radius. Use as many of your AOE's as possible, ice prison included, and just ruin multiple targets days.

BTW: My holy mage is always in heavy armor.. and dropping a fully charged emberstorm is the most powerful AOE that anyone could possibly imagine. Combined with earthblaze (reduces fire def in an AOE, and stacks with spark) i was able to ice prison, cast ember, reduce 20% fire def of everything around me, and right when amp proc'd from ice, drop anything that stood close.

Play your mages people! just dont whore spark around... that skill made my favorite class feel lame.

MageTank

Well I class kiting as stalling your opponets, whether with slows, stuns paralyze or distance.

In a way yes but that to me is nuking, not CC.

I never use moistcuring, 1 spark for 20% ct isn't worth it imho, unless it sends you insta.

The sutra dew combo is an age old trick, I remember once being the healer doing this (Our cleric left and I was sage) needless to say we had a good barb but it was funny to be the healer as a wiz.

I am more of a defensive and conservative player, I only drop nukes when I see an opening I like, whereas on sage you can pop 'em till you drop.

I wouldn't class gush spam as CC, doesn't really control a crowd.

Which skills are you talking about? I only know of chi siphon and one or two skills that reduces one target's chi but doesn't give you any. I'm not good with genies tbh.

Me and my BM friend use to do that, I was HA con build and we'd go around stunning, HF while I charged up Emberstorm. Pretty damn epic, and a lot of fun. xD

Luckily those that spam Spark can be walled by one genie skill.

this wrong, u can test it here easily with high exp server, still +5% damage is pretty low so similiar like +5 att lv what isnt big deal same like demon effect on earth nuke

After everything has been calculated and all reductions were accounted for it was about 3.X%.

[MageTank]

The skills i speak of with the genie is Mantle Ripple of Death, which drains all enemies within a 15 meter radius by 20 constantly. It lasts for 60 seconds. Its only usable on the ground too. The other skill is Mantle Ripple of Rage, which increases the chi you and your allies gain by 3, each time they are attacked, within a 15 meter radius. Again, its only usable on the ground. Another VERY VERY valuable skill is earthblaze. It reduces the fire defense of every target within 12 meters by 10%, for 15 seconds, every 10 dex points increases fire def reduction by 1%. My genie had 100 dex, meaning i reduced 20% fire def within 12 meters, for 15 secs. This debuff stacks with all magic def debuffs, and even undine AND spark. Mages, warriors that uses the fire imbue skill, or archers that use the fire buff passive, will also benefit from the reduction of fire defense. My preferred tactic was to use AOE chi reduction, cast ice prison, then earthblaze, then cast emberstorm (as a heavy mage). When my emberstorm finished, ice prisons 30% amp would proc right b4 its detonation, allowing me to deal damage to a target with 20% fire def reduced, and 30% amp on them. Most people within that radius would die.

Another skill for the genie worth getting is tangling mire. If you combine tangling with earthblaze, you can reduce 35% fire def, and assume your genie has 100 dex, 20% fire def. Casting pyro edge to targets that were hit with both these AOE defense reductions after using a level 2 or 3 fury burst, results in a group of dead enemies (assuming you were not interupted).

All of these cases work better than using spark on a single target, as you can kill more enemies without having to wait for your genie to recharge to spark again. It also benefits your teammates more (chi reduction aoe, chi healing aoe, pdef reduce aoe, fire def reduce aoe) and using any of these 4 will benefit your team. AOE seal works best when sins/warriors gank targets, allowing you to stop multiple enemies at once. And the chi you can save from ulti's and gain from the holy fairy skill, and blazing, allows you to use your dooms and ice prison more often, allowing you to effectively engage multiple targets. Even if your not killing, ticking enemy heiros will instill them with fear, and even allow teammates to finish anyone that was touched by your massive AOE's.

So again... Demon mage = best solo "nuker"
Holy mage = best support/multi target "nuker"

MageTank