Alternate builds.

[Feone]

Some of the classes in PW are set up to be capable of more than one build. Currently however two of the main ones are quite limited in this because of the endgame gear.
Mainly:
The DPH (Damage Per Hit) Assassin as well as the HA physical Venomancer.
Maybe it would be possible to bring out some alternate gear to make these builds worthwhile adding two unique elements to PVP.
Also to a lesser degree the skill damage based archer.

The Venomancer:

Foxform provides a damage boost to melee damage as well as accuracy for veno's. However currently going melee is not worth it because of two things mainly:
1: Even the pataka (highest physical attack weapon) requires a massive amount of magic to wield essentially making it impossible to have high strength based physical attack.
2: There is no -interval whatsoever on a pataka so melee veno's hit both low and slow.
 
Of course going for a melee build would have to mean sacrificing magic damage to gain melee, it would be unfair to give them both. A solution to boost this option would be to bring out a magic-class weapon (So the veno can use their foxform & skills.) with a high strength requirement, low magic requirement. Good physical damage, low magic damage as well as some -int and possibly accuracy adds. This somewhat reverses the veno's skill set turning the magical hits into the skills used for controll & debuffs and the physical part into the damage instead. Pretty much a whole different playing style that the veno is already set up to work with.


The DPH assassin: (Credits to Ajdin for some of the ideas).

With Chill of the Deep and sage skills like raving slash assassins are set up to be either APS or DPH. Right now DPH is worthless because APS sins hit almost as hard and there is no advantage other than the atk lvl boost from chill (while sacrificing aps). Meaning that the DPH build isn't viable.
The addition of another weapon could change this if it is a dagger with possibly God of Frenzy anda  +interval betweenhits add (make you hit SLOWER) Essentially adding the ability to zerkcrit while cutting aps in half. (or something along those lines).

I think this would add a fun dimention to pk because there are currently no physical classes based around DPH. Seeker & barb can do it a little bit but the majority of the gameplay is still APS.

One problem I can see with this is AA players getting 1shot from stealth and/or physical players not being hurt at all by this build. Perhaps the DPH dagger could have a lowered physical attack along with an extra elemental add. This way arcanes would be less likely to get 1shot as well as physical classes actually taking damage.


Skill damage based archer: Currently going sage on archer is hardly worth it because the lack of channeling & APS makes it extremely hard to kill anything. Demon quickshot is a major advantage over anything a sage has (though even with this archers are still severely underpowered).
A possible fix for this would be a LA gear set based around -channeling instead of -int. This way archers could actually finish channeling a skill before they grow old and die with the downside of not shooting very fast on regular shots.


Just some ideas, I would love to hear some suggestions / constructive criticism on any part of this.


Edit: If your post can be summarized as "LOLOLOL thats retarded because I disagree with it." Please don't post it at all. Constructive criticism is much more helpfull =).

[hotflamie]

On veno part, HA is still useable as a debuffer. Like ha ep, but they should make it dmg playable aswell.
Sin part: something like 50/50 would be good, although with+aps and GoF its more then cut in half.
Ea: how about making ea locked pants/boots with int and a whole craftanble set with channeling.
Because eas need the aps to kill aa/debuff, afterall most of the phys skills for ea have longer cast(the animation), and I dont think that one is effected by the -channel and the phys skills isn't strong enough to kill aa on their own, even if channeling is added. But adding -channel boots/pants and remove useless stats like hp recovery(think there is) would be a very minimal but needed boost for ea.

[Ninja]

Take away int on archers, replace with - channel, I agree. Spirit Blackhole on the 150 bow procs far too often for my liking, even if its only about 20% more often. Archers should have the - channel option avaliable to them.

Even giving the option for either works.

[Gtar_God]

Take away int on archers, replace with - channel, I agree. Spirit Blackhole on the 150 bow procs far too often for my liking, even if its only about 20% more often. Archers should have the - channel option avaliable to them.

Even giving the option for either works.

QQ its the archers purge bow which makes us annoyin and gives us the ability to kill ppl atm. We got no chance at gettin through any1 who has cleric/BM buffs. We rely on that purge to proc eventually.........plus theres nothin more evil than purgin some1's anti stun or triple spark xD

As for channeling...if there was an option between channelin and interval, i dont see there being a huge switch to channelin gear. Theres really only one skill (Thunderous Blast) which has a long cast time. Archers also only use the metal skills on phys/LA and with archers being underpowered, ud need lucky crits and mayb and amp to kill some1 on just ur metal skills. Most archers would needa hit with normal attacks to mayb tick a charm first. Also we use normal attacks to gain chi. So trading interval out for channelin would make it much harder to get chi.

Just my opinion anyways ^^

[Feone]

As it stands right now archers aren't exactly powerfull lol. They can get 1shot by just about anything and at least half the classes are hardly bothered by their damage. Nor do they have chi to spam sparks like many others do.
But anyway, the main thing for this thread is the alternative builds. Archer skills are quite slow. Especially some of the aoes so channeling there would help. It would make them more viable against HA, though taking away int completely would be a bit much, they wouldn't be able to get past charms on anything.  A mixed gear option so they can possibly sacrifice some int to gain some chan might be good.

[g0rml3ss]

as mentioned , archers that prefer -chan tend to be sage, and it is something that has always been missing here, but then again they tend to sacrifice aps for survivability (def spark not aps boost) giving ea this option would be a good thing how ever would need 2 separate sets imo, have to be careful not to remove int from demon archers cos that would just be wrong so 2 sets 1 with the -chan and without the aps and vice versa, not one set with both mixed, ive a dark ea and ive no desire for -chan at all, id prefer to take aps, if i was sage id glady give up my aps for cast.

melee class venos ... blah do we then give wiz and cleric high phy dmg options too ? why pic an elemental if you wanted to play phys, or to quote Agatio when I 1st started playing here and couldnt have fists for my ea, "if an ea wants to use fists should just make a bm" well same logic should apply to veno's if a veno wants to do higher physical dmg than elemental, should of made a barb, just my opinion on it.

sins ... don't really care tbh the get kinda sorted out with morai anyway and many will probably start prefering the dph to aps build due to this.


**Edit** also on the note of ea's it's about time the right thing was done and debuff bows restricted to ea's sins can throw dagger, bm has a ranged pike and barbs can just juggernaut mobs, the excuse that other classes need bows to lure is out dated, this step alone would improve pvp as every char out there won't be running round debuffing everything at 20m+ nor will none ranged classes (sin & bm that go mainly dex) be hitting as hard as any ea from this range. range is an ea's special ability shouldn't be available to none ranged classes.

[Feone]

About venos, they aren't an elemental class like the others though. Half their skillset is melee and physical damage so they hardly compare to a wizard or a cleric who are purely based off magic.

[hotflamie]

As it stands right now archers aren't exactly powerfull lol. They can get 1shot by just about anything and at least half the classes are hardly bothered by their damage. Nor do they have chi to spam sparks like many others do.
But anyway, the main thing for this thread is the alternative builds. Archer skills are quite slow. Especially some of the aoes so channeling there would help. It would make them more viable against HA, though taking away int completely would be a bit much, they wouldn't be able to get past charms on anything.  A mixed gear option so they can possibly sacrifice some int to gain some chan might be good.

Yh what I want is -10% channeling on boots and pants or 6%, but limit it to ea.

[g0rml3ss]

About venos, they aren't an elemental class like the others though. Half their skillset is melee and physical damage so they hardly compare to a wizard or a cleric who are purely based off magic.

"Wood Mastery"

granted they deal phys damage too they also have a nix that deals additional physical damage, how ever if they were intended to be a mid class, they would of been a light armour such as an ea , elemental, physical and DOT's but they are magic based , with magic weapons and arcane robes, not saying they can't utilise other builds just saying elemental is their natural classification. If people choose to make a HA veno then imo they should accept that they are giving up huge amounts of damage to do so, just as does an ep or wiz. It should be common sense to to expect this and silly for people to expect the best of both. I mean where does it stop, EA fists with all their skills on allowing them to go 5aps and not sacrifice range skills?

[Feone]

Ok look, if you don't know the first thing about veno's don't even bother replying. They also have Melee mastry which does the exact same thing but for physical damage.

Also you are saying going HA sacrifices damage, yes this is the case for MAGIC damage. Veno melee damage is ALWAYS useless as it is now. I'm not saying give them 5aps and both high phys and magic damage. I'm saying give them the option to play the physical part of the class as it was meant. With the insane defenses here  & the way the endgame gear in EPW is set up melee veno is cancelled out.
Also before you say it, no I don't mean both physical and magic damage high. If they want good phys damage they would have to sacrifice their magic damage. Also wearing arcane robes is still quite possible, they get a pdef boost in foxform & the mag requirement of armor is only 150 ish, nowhere near the 450 it takes for wep.

[g0rml3ss]

Ok look, if you don't know the first thing about veno's don't even bother replying. They also have Melee mastry which does the exact same thing but for physical damage.

Also you are saying going HA sacrifices damage, yes this is the case for MAGIC damage. Veno melee damage is ALWAYS useless as it is now. I'm not saying give them 5aps and both high phys and magic damage. I'm saying give them the option to play the physical part of the class as it was meant. With the insane defenses here  & the way the endgame gear in EPW is set up melee veno is cancelled out.
Also before you say it, no I don't mean both physical and magic damage high. If they want good phys damage they would have to sacrifice their magic damage. Also wearing arcane robes is still quite possible, they get a pdef boost in foxform & the mag requirement of armor is only 150 ish, nowhere near the 450 it takes for wep.

I know nothing about any classes, where do I plant the hostages? should we plant at A or B, I'm the vip ...  this is counter-strike right ? now just to pull a few lines out your own post.

"give them the option to play the physical part of the class as it was meant."

"they get a pdef boost in foxform"

if you want to play the melee part as it's "meant to be" then use the defensive ability of fox form and manipulate fox form skills, because they have both magic and elemental, doesn't mean they should be able to pull apart ppl with physical damage, there is a reason they need to equip a magial weapon and its the very same reason they require high mag points to do so because they are first and foremost a MAGIC class, and never have been physical damage killers with the exception of glitching a fist or a claw in fox form and aps'ing a kill. As for the way everything here is cancelled out yadda yadda cos of way gear is set up yadda yadda, because of insane def etc etc, its the same for all classes some suffer, dark ep dont get to deal full potential in damage due to cleric dmg being restricted so sage ep didnt become to op on heals, how many sage crit wizzies u see around? dont think I've seen too many most go dark cos the casting and sparking is alot better and they do such huge amounts of damage they dont need the sage crit, so on and so forth, to create "balance" on a game that mearly was never designed for classes to be balanced and all be able to 1 v 1 many things will ahve to suffer or sadly become obsolete, pw was never meant to be a 1 on 1 game its why each classes skills are counter to another specific class abilities and so forth. The problem with balancing the game and making everyone happy is taht its impossible, every time you give a little something to 1 class , you take away from at least 3 others.

[Feone]

Taken away from other classes is hardly an issue here. The veno foxform skills are quite unique in their effects.
Anyway, you still aren't reading what I'm saying. Please scroll up and read my post it clearly states they wouldn't be able to do BOTH good physical and magical which is what your entire complaint seems to be about. It would merely allow them to chose either one.

[Delirium]

Haven't I suggested stuff like this numerous times for it to be casted aside? Heh.

[g0rml3ss]

actually my point is why should you have the choice at all ?

Arcanes are nothing more than glass cannons, big dmg low def and thats exactly what they should be, if you want to get more out of the physical aspect of a veno attack this is what pets are for they also debuf armours yadda yadda , they do much more than just op bleeds. Giving venos high damage phys weapons to match the damage of the magic weapons so they can go into heavy armour and maintain the ability to kill as before is just ridiculous. If it were to happen then it would only be right to go back to an early point I made of giving ep's and mages the same option, weapons that allowed them to do huge magic dmg while being able to wear heavy gear , due to the fact they have no physical attacks.

Now does that seem right to you?

I fully appreciate that arcane isnt everyones cup of tea, but it has its purposes for the high mag requirements, if you choose to go into a survivability mode, be it in light armour or heavy then you should acknowledge that you just became nothing more than a support char and will find killing anything without help very difficult.

[Feone]

Have you even read the veno class description? Venomancers are not about nuking, that is what wizards and psychics are for.