Epic Perfect World

Balance Suggestion

Offline Lucky

  • avatar
  • Pokemon Master
  • Feel free to PM ingame if you need any help
After looking at all the suggestions (QQ) threads about nerfing/buffing certain classes, I tried to brainstorm for a possible way to solve as many of these problems as possible. Eventually, I decided on an unorthodox method, but I'm not sure whether it'll work.

Firstly, it'll help to list some of the current QQs:
1. Archer instacast
2. Mystic AS
3. Wizard firecombo
4. Seeker metal zerkcrits
5. Venomancer nova, pets, amp, purge

There have been convincing for and against arguments for both sides for each problem, but a single solution that keeps being used by people defending their own class, is genie skills. This would have been quite a good argument, but genie skills have CDs, energy costs, limitations, and only 8 slots. The easiest way to solve those problems would probably be to further improve the genie. There are a couple of ways to do this.

1. Better genie gears for a low price, e.g. from god's giving. This gives genies more mag/vit to spam skills, dex for badge of courage, str for tree of protection etc.

2. Increase the level cap to 170/180 or whatever you see fit. The exp should be scaled down so that level 150-170 only takes 1 mob or something. This gives genies more attribute points to spend, and also more lucky points.

However, these solutions come with some problems that I can think of.

1. For both solutions, they might have unwanted side effects, such as making genie spark, extreme poison, solid shield, occult ice even more over powered. This might negate the intended effects of making skills such as soul of fire, nullify poison, heart of steel, faith, tree of protection, expel more viable (but not super spammable).

2. For the second solution, 145+ will be completely unable to pk with 170s, due to damage nerf against higher level opponents. Then again, nirvy and r8r gear already have a huge gap between them, there really isn't much point in doing so. The only reason I can think of is a 150 wearing nirvy gears purely to practice with the 145+ chars.

3. Not much of a reason, but for the second solution, people with OP genies that people 'put so much effort into' will be less pro, and those people will QQ if their 150/150 genie becomes 152/170. IMHO, ignore them.

4. Even less of a reason, those archers/seekers/some class I overlooked will STILL QQ (IKR, it NEVER ends) about genie skills being more useable, and completely forget that these may help them slightly too."Finally SoW patch comes and sage archers are viable and seekers are barely useful now and you want to take that away from us?" These complaints will usually come from those who do not bother to learn their class, but that's a large majority of the server.

I know that my solutions aren't perfect, and there might be better ones out there, but that's all I can think of atm. Feel free to discuss and share opinions and brainstorm more. I'm sure that I have missed out many flaws in my suggestions, please point then out so I can add them in. Further improving upon and editing my idea is permitted too, I might even go so far as to say that it is encouraged. Thanks for reading and I look forward to seeing your replies!
ShinyWB Demon Barbarian WildBunch
NaturalTouch Demon Mystic Ducks
LolCrits Sage Assassin
Fistings Demon Blademaster Rawr
LuckyKill Sage Seeker
LoneMaiden Sage Archer

Have you guys ever seen a flock of ducks flying in perfect formation? It's beautiful. Pretty awesome the way they all stick together. Ducks never say die. Ever seen a duck fight? No way. Why? Because the other animals are afraid. They know that if they mess with one duck, they gotta deal with the whole flock. I'm proud to be a Duck, and I'd be proud to fly with any one of you. So how about it? Who's a Duck?

Offline Feone

  • avatar
  • Forum Veteran
1. Archer issues have been thorougly discussed in another topic (and are still being discussed.)
2. Agreed, but changing anything on genie wont help.
3. Easy enough to counter.
4. Easy enough to counter.
5. Purge and amp are not OP. Nova is a 2spark skill, it's no less powerfull than the other 2spark ones. Pets have already been nerfed.


Genies are fine as they are right now. They don't need a boost. Increasing them in strength would break so many things I'm not even going to bother to list it all. For every bit that defensive genie skills become more powerfull the offensive ones do too, it wouldn't change anything except it would break some genie skills to be way too OP.  (the ones with stat-based effects or very low cooldown but high energy cost.)

Offline Lucky

  • avatar
  • Pokemon Master
  • Feel free to PM ingame if you need any help
1. I know it's being discussed, but this topic isn't about discussing that.
2. Yes it would. AD can be more easily used, and Faith also.
3. As a mystic, I find that easy to counter too, but it's no use ignoring the fact that some classes DO have trouble with it, people DO raise it up as a problem, and it's far too easy for the player behind to use with a stunning amount of success.
4. Refer to 3.
5. Please, I have great respect for your ability, and am aware of your pk prowess, but you should not be defending your class here in this thread, that isn't what this thread is meant to be for. As you can see, I have refrained from posting on ANY QQ thread about nerfing AS. It would be biased, heavily so. Let those players who know what they are doing and know how to face our classes comment for us. If there really AREN'T any players who can stand up to our classes, and thus will defend us on forums, then, I guess...our classes really ARE OP.

EDIT: Thanks for the last piece though, it was not off-topic and ought to be taken into consideration. However, I already did list it (problem number one I believe). However, I guess that will be up to the GMS, to test and to see if the increased genes will do more good than harm to pk balance. I'm glad you chose to post it, GMs will know this is one of the main concerns the community has over my idea, and will probably look into it more seriously. Thanks!
Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 10:35 am by Lucky
ShinyWB Demon Barbarian WildBunch
NaturalTouch Demon Mystic Ducks
LolCrits Sage Assassin
Fistings Demon Blademaster Rawr
LuckyKill Sage Seeker
LoneMaiden Sage Archer

Have you guys ever seen a flock of ducks flying in perfect formation? It's beautiful. Pretty awesome the way they all stick together. Ducks never say die. Ever seen a duck fight? No way. Why? Because the other animals are afraid. They know that if they mess with one duck, they gotta deal with the whole flock. I'm proud to be a Duck, and I'd be proud to fly with any one of you. So how about it? Who's a Duck?

sixsignsofalex

1. Archer issues have been thorougly discussed in another topic (and are still being discussed.)
2. Agreed, but changing anything on genie wont help.
3. Easy enough to counter.
4. Easy enough to counter.
5. Purge and amp are not OP. Nova is a 2spark skill, it's no less powerfull than the other 2spark ones. Pets have already been nerfed.


Genies are fine as they are right now. They don't need a boost. Increasing them in strength would break so many things I'm not even going to bother to list it all. For every bit that defensive genie skills become more powerfull the offensive ones do too, it wouldn't change anything except it would break some genie skills to be way too OP.  (the ones with stat-based effects or very low cooldown but high energy cost.)



I think most of these suggestions are good, but many people will disagree, i too have posted a similar post before, and people just don't like it. the problem with suggesting u take something from multiple classes is. It affects many players and then they think 'shit! i'm being nurfed!' And therefore go against every idea and point u make. :) i think it's always more positive to find ways to improve classes, rather then nurf others ^^ but i do agree with every suggestion u made ( maybe not the veno one so much )

The issue there is. Is simple. Some classes do better against differenct classes. There are clear advantages to some classes vs others. sure there are ways around it. but if both players r skilled, nice gears etc. it is usually quite easy to tell who will win. I think there needs to be a lot of work put into giving certain classes bonuses against other classes whom have more of an advantage.

This server is 1 of the most balanced out there, and aga has done a great job. imo there are just a few things that need to be changed, if not even to make it more ''balanced'' but to bring the fun back into the game. I think that is what's lacking,

But giving a genie stats boosts is a bad idea i think. Already i know ppl who can do 3 expels, with only an 8 sec gap between them. Or ppl who can do belief and AD a few moment later. I think point wise, genies r fine. If anything i would like available skills to be 10, rather then 8. Like other servers have implimented ^^ it gives more of a variety vs every class.

Offline Elly

  • Agony awaits
1. Easily nerfed by removing blessing. Will also nerf the channeling of dartle/stun/STA of dark archers. And no, it doesn't make low cast sage ea's completely useless - they can still reach satisfying amount of channeling.

2. It was already nerfed by removing the SoW upgrade of this skill. All I can think of is increased cooldown or limiting it to lv10.

3. Not really an issue. If nerf was really to happen, limiting it to level 1 might be a good solution.

4. Don't see a problem with this, then again it could be because I play arcane classes mostly.

5. As I said in the other thread, only issue here is dark nova which now has a guaranteed chance to succeed and amplify the already high damage by 30%. Decreasing the chance to 67% would do it, as well as removing the sage effect completely (leaving it at 95% though) to compensate.

As for your solutions:

1. Definitely not. If anything, genies need to be downgraded, as on other servers. This is the only servers where you can build a genie to have faith, AD, expel, tree of protection all at once.

2. Please no. Raising the level cap raises the stat point distribution, HP, defence, attack - simply, all the atributes. Which will in the beginning require more and more balance work which no-one would like to put up with.

There is a very simple solution to all of the balance issues on this server, but we need to take baby steps. There aren't any moves which would ultimately solve all the problems once and for all, each issue needs to be looked at separately and playerbase should be asked before applying any of the changes.

Oh, and no class limited blessings please. If there are going to be any blessings at all, then bring back the PW school teacher blessings.

Elly - 150 Sage venomancer
Decipher - 150 Demon mystic

[22:32:11] Chad: the name rev
[22:32:13] Chad: is foul language

Offline blackfire

  • avatar
  • Member
Another post, why u guys want anything change? The things are good as they are, as Talented said, this is 1 of the best balanced servers. I never saw a QQ about Clerics. Clerics what? Are they the best class, no. Any class is weak vs a class thats a game. U cant be invicibile LOL. Same in PWI, in TW a r9r3 wizz took a squad of 10 members solo. What you want to improove? The only thing is that EA in this server can be channel type and thats sucks. They ment to be aps, and add extra dmg with their metal skills. Not using only skills. In fact all classes are well balanced, and i vot to let the game how it is now. You dont like being killed? Dude, you got youtube, go learn pk from there or whatever!
Life is the art of drawing without an eraser.

Offline Combichrist

  • avatar
  • Member
1. Easily nerfed by removing blessing. Will also nerf the channeling of dartle/stun/STA of dark archers. And no, it doesn't make low cast sage ea's completely useless - they can still reach satisfying amount of channeling.

2. It was already nerfed by removing the SoW upgrade of this skill. All I can think of is increased cooldown or limiting it to lv10.

3. Not really an issue. If nerf was really to happen, limiting it to level 1 might be a good solution.

4. Don't see a problem with this, then again it could be because I play arcane classes mostly.

5. As I said in the other thread, only issue here is dark nova which now has a guaranteed chance to succeed and amplify the already high damage by 30%. Decreasing the chance to 67% would do it, as well as removing the sage effect completely (leaving it at 95% though) to compensate.

As for your solutions:

1. Definitely not. If anything, genies need to be downgraded, as on other servers. This is the only servers where you can build a genie to have faith, AD, expel, tree of protection all at once.

2. Please no. Raising the level cap raises the stat point distribution, HP, defence, attack - simply, all the atributes. Which will in the beginning require more and more balance work which no-one would like to put up with.




 ^This.

Re - R8 Sage Mystic
Aprella - R8 Demon Cleric

Antihero's Amazing Guide to Searching!

Offline Lucky

  • avatar
  • Pokemon Master
  • Feel free to PM ingame if you need any help
@Talented: Agreed, PWI was meant to be a rock-paper-scissors game. I would like to point out that I'm not nerfing any class though, but improving all by improving genie. And the problems I listed were not ones that I came up with, but those I found on forums.

@Elly: We aren't really here to discuss whether they are OP or not, thanks for the contribution though.

1. That may be true, but that is because the killing prowess here is really high. It's impossible to survive a gank without your genie here, whereas in PWI a sage spark might get you out of most 2v1s. Imagine PKing a sin without belief, badge of courage and absolute domain here *shivers*.

2. All classes get those stat boosts...I don't really see the problem.

About class limited blessings...I wonder how long clerics' plume shell will last without their blessing lol. You might want to rethink that a little.
ShinyWB Demon Barbarian WildBunch
NaturalTouch Demon Mystic Ducks
LolCrits Sage Assassin
Fistings Demon Blademaster Rawr
LuckyKill Sage Seeker
LoneMaiden Sage Archer

Have you guys ever seen a flock of ducks flying in perfect formation? It's beautiful. Pretty awesome the way they all stick together. Ducks never say die. Ever seen a duck fight? No way. Why? Because the other animals are afraid. They know that if they mess with one duck, they gotta deal with the whole flock. I'm proud to be a Duck, and I'd be proud to fly with any one of you. So how about it? Who's a Duck?

Offline Lucky

  • avatar
  • Pokemon Master
  • Feel free to PM ingame if you need any help
Another post, why u guys want anything change? The things are good as they are, as Talented said, this is 1 of the best balanced servers. I never saw a QQ about Clerics. Clerics what? Are they the best class, no. Any class is weak vs a class thats a game. U cant be invicibile LOL. Same in PWI, in TW a r9r3 wizz took a squad of 10 members solo. What you want to improove? The only thing is that EA in this server can be channel type and thats sucks. They ment to be aps, and add extra dmg with their metal skills. Not using only skills. In fact all classes are well balanced, and i vot to let the game how it is now. You dont like being killed? Dude, you got youtube, go learn pk from there or whatever!

C'mon there ARE some classes here that people think are OP, and for good reason. Please stop raging when you have no idea what the topic is about. Maybe I should remove the first few lines of my first post...they're throwing everyone who does not bother to read off -_- It has nothing to do whether I like or dislike being killed. I do not dying ingame, PKing means I am prepared for it, but neither am I am ingame masochist. Just...if you have something useful to say, say it, don't dismiss people's efforts and pk ability.
ShinyWB Demon Barbarian WildBunch
NaturalTouch Demon Mystic Ducks
LolCrits Sage Assassin
Fistings Demon Blademaster Rawr
LuckyKill Sage Seeker
LoneMaiden Sage Archer

Have you guys ever seen a flock of ducks flying in perfect formation? It's beautiful. Pretty awesome the way they all stick together. Ducks never say die. Ever seen a duck fight? No way. Why? Because the other animals are afraid. They know that if they mess with one duck, they gotta deal with the whole flock. I'm proud to be a Duck, and I'd be proud to fly with any one of you. So how about it? Who's a Duck?

Offline Elly

  • Agony awaits
1. That may be true, but that is because the killing prowess here is really high. It's impossible to survive a gank without your genie here, whereas in PWI a sage spark might get you out of most 2v1s. Imagine PKing a sin without belief, badge of courage and absolute domain here *shivers*.

2. All classes get those stat boosts...I don't really see the problem.

About class limited blessings...I wonder how long clerics' plume shell will last without their blessing lol. You might want to rethink that a little.

Yes, ganks here are much easier to be dealt with but that is mostly because of the HP:Attack ratio being too high. This actually happens because every time you level you get a certain amount of HP, defense and attack - but the defense paired up with hp makes survivability gained much higher than the attack gained. Fourty five levels of this does make a difference. Add a high grade armor with high refines and a high weapon damage which renders fixed damage component of the skills nearly useless to that and you have yourself a server where fights last much longer than on the server where the cap is level 105. Having genie abilities higher than the level of the character requires would make genies nearly up to par with players in their importance in the battle. You could expect having extreme poison on yourself infinitely and before trying to kill anything with physical damage you would have to wait out 27 seconds of physical immunity. But then again, none of it matters. We have only eight slots for genie skills. If we had to use one slot to defend from every element, where would that lead us to?
I might've wandered away in my thoughts, but my point is - Do not try to fix all the classes at once. Take baby steps.

And yes, I forgot about the cleric blessing, but they might be the only class that would actually need one. Then again, this is an issue that was caused by what I earlier mentioned - amount of mana you gain per level can't put up with the amount of everything else you gain.

Elly - 150 Sage venomancer
Decipher - 150 Demon mystic

[22:32:11] Chad: the name rev
[22:32:13] Chad: is foul language

Offline Feone

  • avatar
  • Forum Veteran
Ah, so I'm not allowed to make a sensible comment on veno's because I play one? By that logic you should not make comments on this game because you play it.

Purge and amp are in no way, shape or form OP. Veno's aren't the only class that can purge nor the ones that can do it fastest. Venos also come with lower base magic attack than other classes which is compensated by debuffs, like amp. The class is built around this and as such they are not OP.

I do not believe nova is OP because it takes 2 sparks. Demon venos do not have a lot of chi and 2 sparks are very precious. Especially because a lot of defenses cost chi, lots of it. While I agree that reducing the HF chance to 67% would not be a bad idea, the seal should stay. That part is no stronger than Mountain Siege on a wizard.

Pets were already nerfed quite badly, there is no point in discussing them again.

You, yourself, are dismissing every reply you disagree with with personal insults.

As Talented said, not every class is equally good at fighting others, this is part of the game and is intentional.

Boosting genies is a bad idea on so many levels it's hard to even begin to pick a point.
 For example, relentless courage. This skill gives aps based on...str or dex, I dont remember which.  Boosting genie means higher stats on it. It can already send GoF sins with -0.2 on armor + dags to 4.0 aps.  Add these much higher stats  and it will send Gof sins flying to 5.0, or EA's at 2.5 or even 3 aps.

Expell, it can already be spammed a LOT with the right genie build. Increase the genie and it can be put on nearly nonstop, breaking things for many physical classes.

Faith. It's a VERY powerfull defensive skill, removing ALL debuffs + immunity after is an extremely strong effect balanced by the fact that the genie will use (almost) all its stamina for a bit.  Boost genies and this effect is nearly gone meaning people can use both offensive skills and faith or faith + other defensive skills after.

Tangling mire, debuffs pdef based on...str I think.  Add stronger genies and this debuff will go to extremely high levels allowing any physical class to take away almost all pdef costing just 50 energy.

The list goes on and on...

Also, Elly you said the SoW effect on absorb was removed. This is not true. While the critproc was removed SoW did introduce attacklevels on that skill. It's applied as a debuff and with the new patch debuffs are affected by attack level and as such absorb now hits between 25 and 70% harder depending on gear. Vengeance->creeper->rapid growth and absorb will be hitting 20-25k, more if you add in leech on mistress. (assuming attacklvl wep.) 15-20k with deflvl or purify. It's the skill that needs a nerf, no amount of genie is ever going to protect against a spammable combo with no chi cost. (if leech isnt used, costs abt a spark if it is.)



sixsignsofalex

C'mon there ARE some classes here that people think are OP, and for good reason. Please stop raging when you have no idea what the topic is about. Maybe I should remove the first few lines of my first post...they're throwing everyone who does not bother to read off -_- It has nothing to do whether I like or dislike being killed. I do not dying ingame, PKing means I am prepared for it, but neither am I am ingame masochist. Just...if you have something useful to say, say it, don't dismiss people's efforts and pk ability.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM. You tell em' gurl/guy. xD
I see your points :) but having extra points on genie is a rlly bad idea in my honest opinion.
And almost every other combo on the list can be avoided (ok ik veno one is kinda hard to avoid since they last so long, but meh) Seeker nurf idea...(btw its not just their metal attacks, their physical ones hit like fkn trucks too), well, seekers r a stupid class anyway....90% of the servers seekers camp def weps 99% of the fight. and the other 9% just use aps coz they fail 2 hard for dph -cough- anyways..
Genie spark doesnt last long, only 20m range (and since archer is the only class that USUALLY can get 1 shot from it by, that doesnt matter much, since archers range is so vast) Also the 1shot is usually only on a crit so...

Archer blessing is being removed soon, so don't worry about that point.

i think absorb soul SHOULD be edited. but since some mystics cannot kill w/o it. would be unfair to remove for the less skilled ones. Yeah its op, in event when i 0 p defd Clemy, the mystic 1 shot with AS. Same with the veno Teiren or something idr tbh.. And on most arcanes it hits somewhere in the region of 9-14k i believe per hit, every 3 seconds? and can be channeled in under a second with literately no cast xD If i had to pick 1 skill on game to be edited, it'd be this. But then i am sure other ppl would rather have a diff skill edited/removed ^^ :) everyone has their own opinions so u can nvrrlly make server perfect.

And finally. Dw about ppl calling this a 'nurf post' 'QQ post' 'Rage post' or w/e they think of next. they label these disgussion/opinion posts with that name, so they can disregard its usefullness/credability. On the most part. ppl rely on 1 combo, and they would HATE for that to be taken from that. thus is why they comment such things on your post :) dw about it ^^


Offline ➶➶➶➶➶

  • Fake Bathala
  • Characters: Werpa Lodi
  • Faction: Petmalu
Keep QQ on OP players?

sixsignsofalex

Ah, so I'm not allowed to make a sensible comment on veno's because I play one? By that logic you should not make comments on this game because you play it.

Purge and amp are in no way, shape or form OP. Veno's aren't the only class that can purge nor the ones that can do it fastest. Venos also come with lower base magic attack than other classes which is compensated by debuffs, like amp. The class is built around this and as such they are not OP.

I do not believe nova is OP because it takes 2 sparks. Demon venos do not have a lot of chi and 2 sparks are very precious. Especially because a lot of defenses cost chi, lots of it. While I agree that reducing the HF chance to 67% would not be a bad idea, the seal should stay. That part is no stronger than Mountain Siege on a wizard.

Pets were already nerfed quite badly, there is no point in discussing them again.

You, yourself, are dismissing every reply you disagree with with personal insults.

As Talented said, not every class is equally good at fighting others, this is part of the game and is intentional.

Boosting genies is a bad idea on so many levels it's hard to even begin to pick a point.
 For example, relentless courage. This skill gives aps based on...str or dex, I dont remember which.  Boosting genie means higher stats on it. It can already send GoF sins with -0.2 on armor + dags to 4.0 aps.  Add these much higher stats  and it will send Gof sins flying to 5.0, or EA's at 2.5 or even 3 aps.

Expell, it can already be spammed a LOT with the right genie build. Increase the genie and it can be put on nearly nonstop, breaking things for many physical classes.

Faith. It's a VERY powerfull defensive skill, removing ALL debuffs + immunity after is an extremely strong effect balanced by the fact that the genie will use (almost) all its stamina for a bit.  Boost genies and this effect is nearly gone meaning people can use both offensive skills and faith or faith + other defensive skills after.

Tangling mire, debuffs pdef based on...str I think.  Add stronger genies and this debuff will go to extremely high levels allowing any physical class to take away almost all pdef costing just 50 energy.

The list goes on and on...

Also, Elly you said the SoW effect on absorb was removed. This is not true. While the critproc was removed SoW did introduce attacklevels on that skill. It's applied as a debuff and with the new patch debuffs are affected by attack level and as such absorb now hits between 25 and 70% harder depending on gear. Vengeance->creeper->rapid growth and absorb will be hitting 20-25k, more if you add in leech on mistress. (assuming attacklvl wep.) 15-20k with deflvl or purify. It's the skill that needs a nerf, no amount of genie is ever going to protect against a spammable combo with no chi cost. (if leech isnt used, costs abt a spark if it is.)

+1 to most of this,
but only bit i must honestly say i don't agree with. is that demon nova isnt op. Venos have 2 skills with chance of chi (1 is 20%, 1 is 50%) I use them both on my veno a lot and build chi fast. Ok, sometimes the 50% fails, 4 times in a row. sometimes it works 4 times in a row, it's all luck. I DO think that the nova is op. especially with amp, purge etc already on the target.

would i nurf it?  No. ppl use anti wood, belief, AD etc. so it isnt that much of a deal.

Offline Feone

  • avatar
  • Forum Veteran
+1 to most of this,
but only bit i must honestly say i don't agree with. is that demon nova isnt op. Venos have 2 skills with chance of chi (1 is 20%, 1 is 50%) I use them both on my veno a lot and build chi fast. Ok, sometimes the 50% fails, 4 times in a row. sometimes it works 4 times in a row, it's all luck. I DO think that the nova is op. especially with amp, purge etc already on the target.

would i nurf it?  No. ppl use anti wood, belief, AD etc. so it isnt that much of a deal.

I agree with you on the nova, that HF is rather powerfull added on top of amp. I wonder if it's possible to change the debuff on nova to the regular amp, that way they can't stack.  That should fix it nicely.  The seal on itself is ok though imo, don't forget these chi skills have a pretty big cooldown and require having chi on one.  The other requires foxform and cancels out amp.  While they are very usefull they are by no means spammable without sacrificing a lot of time DDing.