Epic Perfect World

How To Make A Unique Veno That Doesn't Suck

Offline SaltySupreme

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Edit: Please do not glorify arcane Venos in this thread. This guide was written to help make LA or HA Venos that don't suck. If you are butthurt because some people do not want to be arcane then fill out the sheet at http://www.tinyurl.com/BestEverBacon and I'll be sure to drop that complaint in my idgaf bin for later. Also, the HA/AA hybrid is more expensive to make than just going pure heavy. You need high str and high mag, if you want to dish out the gold/ec to get the tome to do it then go right ahead but keep your HA/AA ramblings off this thread and put them into a thread where they would be relevant.

If you read the title name, I call these builds "unique". I call them unique because it is rare to see these builds. Even rarer in PvP. If you check the armor of most white named Venos, you will see arcane most of the time. Finding a heavy or light Veno is like finding an onion ring in your french fries.

Heavy Veno Guide


Because so many people think that HA Venos suck, I'm making a guide so you can make one that doesn't suck. I've seen it all, they have poor attack, poor magic defense, etc; but this can be remedied to an extent. Every Veno build can be good if used correctly because they are so versatile. Venos have something no other class has, a skill tree for magic attacks and a skill tree for physical attacks. In this guide I'm going to help you make the most out of the physical skill tree. I'm open for input so if something here is inaccurate or incorrect please let me know.

This is a warning to anyone considering making a heavy armor Venomancer, make sure you have a high level main if you want to make one right from the get-go so your main can run frost to level it up and get the 120-130 gear for it. If a heavy armor Venomancer is going to be your main, start arcane. Stat for arcane and then at 120 restat for heavy armor. I tried to make an HA Veno right from the start but I couldn't do it because her attack and defense was too low so I had to frost her to 120 and then her stats started getting better.

Another thing, don't use human form as an HA Veno, your stats and armor are meant for fox form. In human form your damage will be horrible. There are some exceptions to this, which are pointed out later.

The Pros and Cons of Heavy Venos

These are important to weigh out before selecting a build for any class, so lets look at what an HA Veno has going for and against it.

Pros:
-High physical defense
-Quick access to fox form debuffs
-High HP
-People don't expect you
-APS(Don't QQ about this, I'll explain it)

Cons:
-Low magic defense
-You have to be in human form to cast Bramble Guard/Hood and a few other self-buffs
-You have to be in human form for access to your stuns
-Your pet heal will be horrible
-People are likely to ask you why you aren't arcane/tell you to go arcane

An HA Veno's high physical defense is amazing for trolling physical classes in PvP and it also gives you an upper hand in PvE; no reliance on your pet. Arcane Venos rely on their pets to do a lot of the physical tanking for them but if you are an HA Veno you can tank physical mobs by yourself. An HA Veno does not have to change forms to cast their debuffs because they will be in fox form all the time except when they need to buff themselves or to show off their fash/armor when they aren't fighting anything/go afk. Refines on heavy armor and shard with vit stones, nuff said. In a squad if your main tank dies you can be a secondary tank because in comparison to an arcane or light Veno you are a meat shield. When it comes down to being a meat shield Barbs take the cake but an HA Veno can be a very reliable secondary tank because things can happen. Maybe the Barb in your squad forgot to bring an extra charm and dies in Warsong or Solid Shield and Invoke were both on cooldown and the Barb dies. No matter what happened to the Barb it doesn't change the fact that you are still a meat shield compared to Venos that choose light or arcane armor. Here is where I expect people to rage/QQ at me, you have some APS. Not a lot, but it is still pretty decent. A bonus from dragon HA gives you -0.10 interval(correct me if I am wrong). A Veno has 1.25 APS without any bonuses, -.10 gear already gives you 1.43 APS, if I am right one piece gives -0.05, that brings you up to 1.54 APS. You can also get an APS bonus from a Lunar Glade cape and certain tomes, bringing you close to 2.0 APS if not that or higher.

HA Venos don't have very good mag def at all, in PvP you are very likely to be 1-shot by a magic class. To remedy this, use magic defense accessories and shard your endgame gear with +20 vit stones. Arcane Venos have quick access to Bramble Guard/Hood while an HA Veno has to come out of fox form to cast them. In both PvP and PvE, this can be your downfall. If you can get enough time to cast them and go back into fox form then this isn't a big disadvantage but in PvP you are likely to be stunned when you go into human form, counter it by using Absolute Domain(a genie skill) before you go into human form or if you are already stunned then you can try using Badge of Courage(another genie skill) to break free. Feral Concentration can be used in Fox Form, use an anti-stun before you cast it and it will allow you to move and attack with immunity. Lucky Scarab and Parasitic Nova are your most effective stuns but you have to be in human form to cast them. Read a few lines above this to see how to make this less of a problem. Heavy Venos have low magic attack, making your pet heal garbage. HA Venos are supposed to be able to tank by themselves but pets have some helpful skills for PvE and PvP so if you whip them out they are very likely to take some damage and because you can't heal them in one heal like an arcane Veno can your pet will be dying pretty often. You will always run into someone who asks you why you aren't arcane or tells you to go arcane. Over time, this can get very irritating and discouraging. You shouldn't worry about them. You don't have to answer to people that ask you why you went heavy or listen to those that tell you to go arcane. This is a disadvantage because it can get extremely irritating over time but if you don't care about it then that leaves you with four disadvantages over five advantages.

Ways to Stat for Heavy Venos

There are two build for HA Venos to pick from. Both builds include dex because without it you will rarely hit anything and don't get me started on how many times you will miss high dex classes like Sins, Archers, claw BMs, the rare LA Veno and claw Barbs.

Option 1: Pure Damage

Meet the requirements for armor/weapon and then stat 5 str and 5 dex every two levels.

Option 2: Vit

Meet the requirements for your armor/weapon and then every two levels stat 5 dex. There are two ways to stat the extra five points, either 3 str and 2vit or 3vit and 2 str.

Pure damage is meant for dealing high damage while the vit build is meant for being able to endure more hits than the damage build. If you choose the vit build I highly recommend getting a strength tome, The Tender Slaves is your best option when choosing the vitality build. Because there is a lot of dexterity in these builds, if you want higher attack you might be able to get away with taking some out of dex and putting it in str and still having good accuracy. Do this at your own accord though.

Human Form Skills To Get

There are a few skills in human form that will be very helpful for you to get.

Necessities:

Lucky Scarab-A stun that doesn't last that long but it can buy you time to cast Bramble Hood

Parasitic Nova-The stun won't always happen but when it does you have enough time to cast Metabolic Boost/Nature's Grace when you need to

Metabolic Boost-Quick HP restoring skill but long cooldown

Nature's Grace-Same thing as Metabolic Boost except instead of HP it restores MP

Bramble Hood-To troll physical classes. It is like an Invoke that only affects physical classes, reflects damage and doesn't lower your movement speed.

Bramble Guard-Again, to troll physical classes.

Ironwood Scarab-The physical defense reduction effect is helpful.

Blazing Scarab-A damage over time skill. It can be good to help do damage if you are stunned.

Frost Scarab-Decreases movement speed by 40% and has an 80% chance to cause water damage over time. Good for slowing down mobs and people that run away from you.

Natural Synergy-Good to use as an anti-stun. The anti-stun effect doesn't help your pet too much but it can be a life saver.

Feral Concentration-This skill stuns you but makes you immune to damage for a few seconds. Can save you if you time it correctly. It might be able to be paired with Natural Synergy so you can move and attack with invincibility. This skill can be used in Fox Form.

Blazing Barrier- As of the Descent expansion Bramble Guard/hood do not reflect damage on the main map, making this skill a necessity and one of the first morai skills you should get if survivability is what you want. Blazing Barrier does work on the main map. It is a mini-Bramble Hood, it reflects physical damage and reduces damage taken.

Bewitch- Probably one of the best trolling skills a Veno has. In a critical part of the fight, use this skill so they can't attack. They can still run around but a Veno has a few fixes for this. Lucky Scarab, Parasitic Nova, Stunning Blow, Occult Ice(If you have it, HA Venos are close range so it would be pretty stupid not to have this.)

The only optional skill is Lending Hand. It lets you give someone a spark but you don't need it that much if you want to keep your sparks to yourself.

Sage or Demon For Heavy Venos?

This should not even be a question but I'll address it because I know some people might not be able to choose. HA Venos should always go sage. As a sage, fox form will provide 150% more physical defense and 250% more accuracy. Sage form makes getting chi easier than it already is. Sage Purge becomes an AoE skill with an AoE of five meters. Sage Amp Damage makes the target take 30% additional damage and Soul Degeneration decreases max HP by 20% on top of stopping HP and MP regeneration. Leech will always give you 600 HP back if you go sage.

Demon can be used but it is not recommended.

Heavy Venos in PvE

In PvE, you are a secondary tank. HA Venos have lots of HP so they are able to tank if the main tank of the squad dies. You will also have to keep your debuffs on and purge bosses when they buff. Because of your high physical defense, you do not have to rely on your squad or your pet to tank physical mobs. Your ranged attacks in human form are good for pulling single mobs or flying mobs in instances.

Heavy Venos in PvP

In PvP, you are going to be either a curse to others or a free kill if you don't know what you're doing. Magic classes can drop you in 1-5 hits. You are probably going to be a one-shot to a Wizard's fire combo. You can probably PK a magic class if you catch them off guard. If they don't expect you to try to PK them that already gives you an upper hand. In contrast, physical classes will have a hard time trying to drop you and when you finally kill them you can expect lots of QQ depending on who you killed. The surprise factor is on your side as an HA Veno, nobody expects you. Most people expect to be faced with an arcane Veno but physical classes will be unpleasantly surprised to see that their attacks are not doing as much as they should be. Melee classes should be very cautious when trying to PK an HA Veno because they might end up being the ones dropped instead. An HA Veno might be able to survive one magic user but when you get ganked use Absolute Domain and run like hell. Sure, you have pretty high HP and defenses but you aren't a Barb. Until you get close to 70k HP, run from a gank especially if there is more than one source of magic damage. If you have close to 70k HP then you can be daring and try to PK everyone ganking you but in the end you are probably not going to survive. Being an HA Veno, you are better in 1v1s, in mass PK you are very likely to be dropping left and right because you will get ganked. There are some human skills to use and you have to try and time them right because you are most vulnerable to physical damage in this form. Use Lucky Scarab/Parasitic Nova to stop ranged classes from running away or to just get land a stun on a close range class. Blazing Scarab/Noxious Gas are good for dealing damage over time but they aren't likely to be very useful if they aren't close to ticking their charm. They might tick their charm though so use them as an opportunity to tick them and then lash out with your strongest attacks or spark on them. Frost Scarab can slow ranged classes down which is very handy and it might cause them to take water damage over time. Abuse Amp Damage/Soul Degeneration, they are your best debuffs. Use Bewitch in a critical moment in the fight to help you survive or you can use it for an offensive boost. Pair it with a stun/freeze and you have a perfect opportunity to spark them. Some classes you might need to spark against so don't be ashamed of it, just don't build reliance on sparking, you'll be ridiculed for it. If you use claws switch to them when sparking for some more APS.

A Veno in NW can be your best friend or your worse enemy. Stunning Blow can stop the flag carrier for the others to kill or to stop somebody attacking the flag carrier on your side so they can score for the team. Summer Sprint lets you effectively carry the flag but speed pots are recommended because the flag slows you down significantly. This applies to all classes but HA Venos in particular, don't cap the flag by yourself. Have some people behind you to hold off the opposing nation. We already know that HA Venos are very unlikely to survive a gank so you need to have some backup in case the opposing nation ganks you.

In TW you are pretty flexible when it comes down to being on offense or defense. You can pull cata or you can be on defense and purge Barbs that try to set up their catas while they are picked off by other defenders. When pulling catas stay near your squad's Cleric; your HP is not as high as a Barb's so you don't have as much to work with but you do have a whole arsenal of survival skills to compensate for this; you just need to know how to correctly time your survival skills and which one would be best to use in your current situation. For example: If an enemy's binding turret is keeping you in place use Natural Synergy or Vacuity Powder if you have it. When you die and respawn at your base re-buff and take a cata with you if you can. Make sure to have some of your faction members nearby to protect you from the enemy faction. If you do get attacked try to tank it as long as you can. Use your survival skills, attack if you have to and if all else fails try to run. Most likely the enemy faction's members will try to keep you stunned so whip out your anti-stuns/damage immunity skills/pots and get as far as you can.

Genies For Heavy Venos

Now that you know how to build your HA Veno and what human form skills are good to get now it is time to learn about good genie skills to get. They type of genie you get doesn't matter that much, it just gives a boost to a certain stat. Now, lets look at what genie skills will help you as an HA Veno.

Holy Path-To help you get out of sticky situations or to help you get through an instance quicker.

Absolute Domain-This is your life-saver. I do not recommend using it just because it works as an anti-stun. Time it correctly and it can save you from triple spark and run PKers or it can save you from a hoard of mobs.

Wind Shield-Increases your already high aps and reduces damage taken by 15% at default for 8 seconds. To use it effectively, stat lots of dex and use a piece of dex equipment on your genie. Because of the aps it can be used when you spark to be pretty destructive.

Occult Ice-To freeze running people or mobs. Good to use when Stunning Blow is in cooldown if you can't catch what you are chasing to use Stunning Blow.

Tangling Mire-Decreases movement speed by 15% and physical defense by 35%. Stat some str to make this more effective.

Badge of Courage-To break out of a stun. If your genie has high dex this skill will work in your favor most of the time.

Second Wind-When your charm is ticked and all your survival skills are in cooldown use this skill. I do not suggest having both Second Wind and Tree of Protection.

Tree of Protection-It may seem useless but it raises your max hp for a few seconds, can be helpful to endure a spark.


Tomes To Use as a Heavy Veno

Even for me, this is hard to decide. If you want to get a tome then these are some choices to consider.

The Tender Slaves-Strength +50, accuracy +30% and -0.05 interval. This can be used to increase your attack and moderately high accuracy.

A Thousand Miles of Mist- +50 vitality, physical damage taken -8 and movement speed +1. Your defenses are already skyrocketing as it is but if you want to make them higher along with your hp and movement speed have at it but your attack can use the boost from The Tender Slaves.

The Concubine's Laugh- +13 strength, +12 vitality and +2% crit rate. This tome is good to consider if you want the best of both an attack, defense and hp boost. It does not have an aps add-on but you do not need it that much considering your aps is already high. If you are aiming for 5.0 aps or close enough, this tome is not one to consider.


Light Veno Guide

I used to play one of these on Lost City and I really enjoyed the build. Why I found it so enjoyable can be seen when we look at the pros and cons.

Pros and Cons of Light Venos

Pros:

-Good physical and magic attack
-Amazing accuracy and evasion
-The surprise factor
-You can use human form or fox form effectively
-Both physical and magic classes will have a hard time trying to kill you

Cons:

-Low HP
-Lower defenses than arcane or heavy Venos
-If used incorrectly you are a free kill
-Still have some reliance on pets
-Ridiculing

As a light Veno you have good physical attack and good magic attack, letting you switch between fox form and human form when you need to and still do decent damage. Classes with low dexterity will consider you a curse, physical classes will have a hard time hitting you unless they have a lot of dexterity. Along with that, your accuracy is amazing, in fox form you will rarely miss. The surprise factor is on your side, light Venos are rarer than heavy. If used correctly, every class will have trouble killing you. When you finally PK somebody as a light Veno get some popcorn and a drink; there will be a hilarious QQ fest so sit back and watch the show that you made. There will be more QQ killing somebody as a light Veno than a heavy Veno because light does not give that much defense while heavy Venos have defense up the ass if built correctly. You have higher HP than an arcane Veno but lower than a heavy Veno. Your hp is in the middle so in both pve and pvp you need to keep an eye on your hp bar. This applies to all classes but to light Venos in particular, if you use it incorrectly everything will be able to drop you. Mobs and other people will be able to drop you. Your defense may be more even but it is lower. You do have to rely on your pet a bit but not as much as an arcane Veno. Your physical defense will let you do some tanking by yourself but you still need a pet to help you. Lastly, you are likely to be ridiculed. Light is not considered a good build but those that ridicule light Venos probably don't even know how to use one properly. If one of them will 1v1 you, drop them so you can laugh when they start QQing about light Venos being op.

Ways to Stat As A Light Veno

Every level stat 1 dex, 1 str and 3 mag.

Credit to this site for the build, it is one of the only light builds out there: http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Venomancer_Common_Stat_Builds

Light Venos in PvE

In pve, you are a damage dealer. You cannot tank effectively on your own but you still deal decent magic and physical damage. With help from your pet, you will be dealing a lot of damage. If you get aggro you can hold your own but not for too long, your low HP makes it difficult for you to tank by yourself. If you have a pet with Roar, use that skill to get the aggro off of you asap.

Light Venos in PvP

In pvp, you are just like any other light classes except for one thing, you can deal both decent magic and physical damage. If you are facing a heavy class, lash out with your magic skills and go into fox form when they spark. Remember to use Soul Transfusion if your charm is on cooldown and you are going below half health, make sure your mana is high so it actually helps you. If you manage to get the long stun with Parasitic Nova you can use that to cast Metabolic Boost and save yourself a charm tick. Against magic classes use fox form to deal damage but go into human form to cast your stuns. You should have enough dex to use claws so if you have them, use them when you spark.

Tomes for Light Venos

They are pretty much the same as HA Venos with some changes.

You can choose The Nightwatch which is the +50 magic tome. Since you can use fox and human form effectively The Nightwatch and The Tender Slaves can both be used. If you want more defense and HP use A Thousand Miles of Mist. You will have to prioritize when choosing your tome: Do I want more attack in fox or human form? Or do I want more defense?

Genies for Light Venos

Read the section Genies for HA Venos, there isn't a difference.
















                                                         

Last Edit: Sept 01, 2013, 06:06 pm by TheFelineLife
I'm only keeping this account open because of the memories I have on here, the good and the bad. I logged in just to change my account, and then I'm putting this dusty book back on the shelf.

Offline 𝐿𝒾𝓁𝒶𝒸

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Great guide :D

Nice to see some different character builds around, rather than everyone being the same.


I used to be a HA veno on a previous server. As long as you know how to survive against magic classes, HA venos can be quite a troll character. Spend most of your time running around stealing people's buff, amping, bewitching and tossing up Blazing Barrier.

However, I used to be demon. Mainly for that sexy demon Nova, demon ironwood, as well as demon fox form and summer sprint, as it made me hard to kill and impossible to catch.

If the people in your squad know how to AA, then pretty much every person I was targetted on went down hard.

Although AA venos hit damn hard here, if you're after some tanking and survivabilty, as well as a change, HA veno can be fun.



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Offline SaltySupreme

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Good Guide.

Thank you.


Great guide :D

Nice to see some different character builds around, rather than everyone being the same.


I used to be a HA veno on a previous server. As long as you know how to survive against magic classes, HA venos can be quite a troll character. Spend most of your time running around stealing people's buff, amping, bewitching and tossing up Blazing Barrier.

However, I used to be demon. Mainly for that sexy demon Nova, demon ironwood, as well as demon fox form and summer sprint, as it made me hard to kill and impossible to catch.

If the people in your squad know how to AA, then pretty much every person I was targetted on went down hard.

Although AA venos hit damn hard here, if you're after some tanking and survivabilty, as well as a change, HA veno can be fun.



Thank you. ^^

Yes, HA Venos are probably the best trolls in the game for that reason alone, just debuff and run. XD

Demon seems like it is more for arcane users but but those skills you listed are really good if an HA Veno just wants to piss people off in PvP.

I agree that AA Venos hit damn hard, I don't even want to think about one sparking on me. -shudder-
I'm only keeping this account open because of the memories I have on here, the good and the bad. I logged in just to change my account, and then I'm putting this dusty book back on the shelf.

Offline djquik

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Actually if u have R8 gears, u can wear r8 gears when you need more magic def or u can mixed with HA gears. Again, if u r AA with r8, u can still get good phy def from the r8 stats ie phy def, reduce phy damage or increase phy def %...

Offline JHIN

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ty for this. im gonna try make a veno for fun  :P
RETIRED BARB
i quit barb just playin' support classes i am no good in 1v1.

i give up PK too hard everyone too stronk. i guess i'm forever noob x.x

Offline SaltySupreme

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Actually if u have R8 gears, u can wear r8 gears when you need more magic def or u can mixed with HA gears. Again, if u r AA with r8, u can still get good phy def from the r8 stats ie phy def, reduce phy damage or increase phy def %...

While this is true not everybody wants to farm the EC to constantly reshape for decent stats. Besides, HA Venos are the ultimate trolling class. That and AA/HA mix probably requires a tome to give you enough magic/str to wear both gears.
Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 04:18 am by TheFelineLife
I'm only keeping this account open because of the memories I have on here, the good and the bad. I logged in just to change my account, and then I'm putting this dusty book back on the shelf.

Offline djquik

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While this is true not everybody wants to farm the EC to constantly reshape for decent stats. Besides, HA Venos are the ultimate trolling class. That and AA/HA mix probably requires a tome to give you enough magic/str to wear both gears.

Actually, the R8 set, which is AA set, has not mag/str requirement except the weapon (str 74 and 74 mag). Hence it is a very good combination of HA/AA if you need more mag def. I'm glad that in EPW, you can easily get these gears than the official. But I do agreed with you about farming for the R8 gears and decent stats. If you r HA, then you dun really need to focus on the R8 stats as your primarily need is the mag def except the weapon which could be weaker than the dragon weapon unless you spend more ec on the weapon stats. :)

Offline SaltySupreme

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Uhm... Good topic overall but a veno shouldn't be full HA due to the low mag def. Get HA pants and boots, then wrists + top + headgear should be magic because of the channeling. Then also wear phys orns and magic rings. This is what an " HA " veno should be. Or just get R8 chest and wrists, get channeling within it and rest HA. Oh and let's not also forget - def level pataka; Def level pataka + 2 R8 pieces = 60 def level (maximum). Let's not also forget about the +50 vitality tome. And the build should be like: min str, min magic and rest into vit. This way you can even pull a cata but the way you described a cata veno... Not the best ways since it's a easy drop for most magic classes.

And uhm... Claws? Never, but never use a claw as a veno unless you want to be a 1 2 3 drop for every class. You will deal crappy damage, not beeing able to kill peope without spark ... And a claws veno should also be demon.

Just one advice and don't take it as an insult: you should learn more about venos. And HA / AA venos must always be support. Like sage, and keep spamming amplify, purge, parasitic nova and always assist attacking the squad leader.

And as I said above, you should learn a bit more about venos. :/

This guide is meant for pure HA Venos, not AA/HA hybrid. I have been playing Veno since late 2011, I know quite enough about Venos.
I'm only keeping this account open because of the memories I have on here, the good and the bad. I logged in just to change my account, and then I'm putting this dusty book back on the shelf.

Offline Sombrero

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Ignore the elitist ramblings of Mittens, just do what you do, Feline. o:

A little on topic, thank you for this, it gives me another option on how to play my veno when I get off my procrastinating ass to get the last 14 levels.

Offline ☣EvilEye23☣

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The guide is good.....but..


I used to be a HA veno on a previous server. As long as you know how to survive against magic classes, HA venos can be quite a troll character. Spend most of your time running around stealing people's buff, amping, bewitching and tossing up Blazing Barrier.

Yes, HA Venos are probably the best trolls in the game for that reason alone, just debuff and run. XD
Demon seems like it is more for arcane users but but those skills you listed are really good if an HA Veno just wants to piss people off in PvP.








...then again, it isn't a bad idea..
LightningI—150 wizard
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  1 x  -  c a n a d a 

Offline Mercy

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I used to be a HA veno on a previous server. As long as you know how to survive against magic classes, HA venos can be quite a troll character. Spend most of your time running around stealing people's buff, amping, bewitching and tossing up Blazing Barrier.


pfft, I do that on my AA veno anyway since my def sucks and my attack sucks, overall I suck at veno but I love pissing people off with it. Hue hue.

Offline ☣EvilEye23☣

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pfft, I do that on my AA veno anyway since my def sucks and my attack sucks, overall I suck at veno but I love pissing people off with it. Hue hue.
I'm totally going to do that.
Someday.

But for now, your comment deserves this face once more:
LightningI—150 wizard
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  1 x  -  c a n a d a 

Offline Mercy

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I'm totally going to do that.
Someday.

But for now, your comment deserves this face once more:


You should, then we could 2v2 people.
2 troll venos, constant debuff, puff bird, barriers and bramble hood. w3w.

Offline ☣EvilEye23☣

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You should, then we could 2v2 people.
2 troll venos, constant debuff, puff bird, barriers and bramble hood. w3w.
I'm really tempted to repost that face again, but I won't.About how much does it take to make a 150 HA veno? (gear, skills, etc, on average, and assuming that you're going for dragon)..
LightningI—150 wizard
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  1 x  -  c a n a d a