Venomencers suggestion.

[Barbie]

Venomancers aren't just casters, they have a physical counterpart, which is something no other caster has. For example, a cleric wanting cleric only claws would be stupid, when should a cleric be physically attacking anyone? However, venomancers were given that option in their skills, and while they were probably meant to use both forms back and forth, you really only seem caster form venos that use foxform for its debuffs. In my opinion, it could always be switched. A veno that is in foxform all the time but goes caster form for the debuffs.

Now, in relation to your second point, not every character does the same thing. A APS sin is not going to be able to fulfill an APS venomancer's role, nor vice versa. Same with a APS Blademaster or whatever. Blademasters were meant to be full HA as well, but most aren't. Are they fail as well? Its trying new things and adapting. I think its pointless to look down on something that hasn't been tested or even put into the game yet.

Not very well read through so probably some mistakes but you get the point.

Anyways, I like the idea and fully support it.

I am not looking down on it at all, I just fail to see the logic in it. Its a valid point to make and If anything I'm trying to help out. I didn't realise Venos had any physical abilities or attributes as a part of thir natural growth, thanks for the update. I do wonder how many though? But it still sort of leads me back to my original point. Imo, a character who tries to fulfill multiple roles becomes a weak jack of all trades. And I believe that for this reason:

Example

Lets say I had a veno and she has claws and a caster staff. I use both phys and Magic attacks so I need Str to get my phys working good, but I also need Mag so my spells are strong. Because I want to fulfill both roles my logical action is to split it, half and half right?. Great! now I can cast and go phys too, but do you not see the problem? I have essentially cut my Strength and Magic by 100% of what It could have been if I chose 1 direction instead of two. If people want to be good at everything they do so with a reduced effectiveness at everything. If you want to be good in magic you wil be weak in phys, if you want to be good in phys you will be weak in magic, do you see what i mean?

As for BM's wearing half LA armour and does that make them fail? Depends what you consider fail really. But when we are talking about different armours that becomes a seperate issue about defence, not attack. However do you cosider barbs who wear light armor and go APS fail? most people probably do, so why is a BM or indeed a veno any different? People generally wear a mix of armour for more APS, and in doing so level their defences, making their defences just 'average' I consider this a defence fail but a gain in attack. Is it worth it? Well that depends on the other changes (Of which there are many) but thats a conversation for another time.

At the end of the day every class has a weakness and a strength, there is no 'ultimate layout' which makes you good against everyone and in trying to acheive this people are making themselves weak against the players who know how to play a class and decide to take it all the way in one direction. The only middle ground is a seeker because their abilitys support that type of role. However I wont condem this thread, I'll support it. If people want to do this to themselves then I say go ahead, the game is more fun anyway when the weaker people are floundering about for the easy pickings. But do it knowing exactly what you are in for, so many people go APS because its 'OP' but thats notthe only power in the game.

[Barbie]

Edit your message so it looks less offensive, then I might consider replying.

That post contains nothing which should offend you, if you feel thats the case then you have read it offensivley, for which I can make no appologies. However as someone else has done your job for you in arguing your case, I think I'll go ahead and leave it as it is.

*This post is made to sound slightly derogatory for which I make no apologies.

[Robbert]

That post contains nothing which should offend you, if you feel thats the case then you have read it offensivley, for which I can make no appologies. However as someone else has done your job for you in arguing your case, I think I'll go ahead and leave it as it is.

*This post is made to sound slightly derogatory for which I make no apologies.

It does, yet I couldn't care less, so I'm not.

[Tali]

when should a cleric be physically attacking anyone?.

Plume shot and razor feathers are physical attacks.