Alternate builds.

[CharlieDx]

DO IT COFFEE, YOU WONT, U SCURRD xD

[hotflamie]

g0rm you are missing one thing... what will ha lose?
first off: range and mdef, 2nd:channel and matk.
What erip want them to gain: close range pdmg.

First off what is a veno meant to be?
A: AA build with dmg and a dmg boost from pet.
(Currently: pet is to weak, bleed isn't effective without 100% AB, squishy as hell)
B: Foxform pdmg debuffer with support from pet.
(Currently lacks: dmg)

The ability to have full gear options (meaning +12 and best gear stones) boost every people, but a class which is meant to have a pet support lacks here, why? Because the pet doesn't get boosted, so veno loses dmg and survability (it can stun & debuff if u know what skills to get) the thing is that pet should be fixed.. (lots more hp, and mdef/pdef) Or boost give veno a boost, like giving ha veno the option to do dmg with their skillset in foxform. Because like Erip said. Half of their skilltree is pdmg, meaning an aa loses half their skillset, I mean for it be effiecntly used. Aswell as for ha that loses pretty much all exept for supporting debuff to other people and a slight tank. (HA isn't useful for dmg in any build, currently)

So whats wrong with giving ha a pdmg option, by boosting it?
Or just go with making pets useful.

[Feone]

I'd rather you didn't coffee, the ideas in the post are worth discussing some more if only the 1 troll would quit spamming the same thing over and over.

hotflamie I agree there. There are already accuracy rings for veno so this is quite nice, now they just need a more physical oriented weapon to complete the build. Yea losing range & channel & magic is a big loss that most veno's  wont make. But for the ones that do they gain the element of surprise as well as a unique new fighting style.

[Bowydude]

Veno is meant to have the PHYSICAL option, in case you didnt know, not ALL RACES have the physical/magical,
as SEEKER was originaly meant as a MAGIC class.Heavy Veno takes away the magic damage and reduces it to nothingness, but a gain in PHYSICAL damage, people like to play thing differently, and thats why the option exits
to go heavy on a magic class, for example a SUPPORT HA CLERIC is AMAZING for what it does, (SUPPORT) where as a battle, glass cannon cleric would be pure MAGIC, the option is yours, no class is limited to what they can do, i would very much like to try a HA archer.

[Agatio]

I did some changes that will apply with next patch:

-0.1 int on demonic/dragon crossbows replaced with -10ct
-ct added as a possible option for random stat crossbows

-stat requirements for patakas reversed (now they are str instead mag based)
-patakas are now 1.25 base aps
-vit on demonic/dragon patakas replaced with %accuracy
-accuracy added as a possible option for random stat patakas

[DrakeX]

I did some changes that will apply with next patch:

-0.1 int on demonic/dragon crossbows replaced with -10ct
-ct added as a possible option for random stat crossbows

-stat requirements for patakas reversed (now they are str instead mag based)
-patakas are now 1.25 base aps
-vit on demonic/dragon patakas replaced with %accuracy
-accuracy added as a possible option for random stat patakas

hmm more channel reduce for archer, doesnt sound bad, lets see how this will be
cant wait till next patch, -79% channel then

[hotflamie]

I did some changes that will apply with next patch:

-0.1 int on demonic/dragon crossbows replaced with -10ct
-ct added as a possible option for random stat crossbows

-stat requirements for patakas reversed (now they are str instead mag based)
-patakas are now 1.25 base aps
-vit on demonic/dragon patakas replaced with %accuracy
-accuracy added as a possible option for random stat patakas

Sweet thx :3

btw off topic: (since i never got any answer from world chat) is int and/or spirit blackhole random avaible randoms on r8 recast for bow?

[Agatio]

hmm more channel reduce for archer, doesnt sound bad, lets see how this will be
cant wait till next patch, -79% channel then

meh, no matter how I count it, it still ends up on -77% with magic rings, cape and tome

btw off topic: (since i never got any answer from world chat) is int and/or spirit blackhole random avaible randoms on r8 recast for bow?

yes it is,
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/32263
http://epicpw.com/index.php?topic=549.0

[DrakeX]

meh, no matter how I count it, it still ends up on -77% with magic rings, cape and tome

hmm, lets do the math again :
Dragon Rings : -20% Channel
Lunar Robe : -6% Channel
Blessing : -20% Channel
Necklace : -6% Channel
Belt : -6% Channel
Crossbow : -12% ( With SotS )

Without tome -70% Channel
How the hell i got to 69%?

Well, with those -10% chan on Xbow additioanly even -80% channel without tome

[hotflamie]

Although with that it is quite risky against meele classes, the extra pdef from rings is quite a nice boost.
But making a channel set like that might work awesome against bm/sin/seeker/barb, probably to tank anyway/ea(although just spamming meele works good enough mostly since ea is more squishy then sin.
I wonder if you could channel as a random for r8 recast bonus, that+atk lvl  on r8 recast would be allowing r8 to be a magic build and having dragon as more of a phys (the -int & debuff being decided)
And perhaps switch -int on r8 recast to channel aswell.

Just my thoughts

[Feone]

The switching to magic rings goes well with the archer mentality. So squishy that you have to run from everything but able to deliver killer damage. The heightened channel makes it a lot easier to kill HA's, but also far easier for HA's to kill the archer.

[hotflamie]

The switching to magic rings goes well with the archer mentality. So squishy that you have to run from everything but able to deliver killer damage. The heightened channel makes it a lot easier to kill HA's, but also far easier for HA's to kill the archer.

Yh, although with r8 recast atk lvl bow its not that hard against has... around 15-18k crits with channel stones and metal debuff at a normal ha(seeker/non marrowed wr) about 10-12 when wr using marrow.
Thats with phys rings, since I'm demon i dont have mdmg frost arrow and 8sec cd at most skills the extra dmg from phys rings is a more needed boost and it aint that hard to 2shot most la and most ha (non barb<.<)
for a sage the ring switch seems useful. As for the vulnerability :/ yep it goes well of the ea concept... it feels like ea is the most glass cannon like char in this server... without the cannon<.<