Epic Perfect World

Alternate builds.

Offline Angel

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actually my point is why should you have the choice at all ?

Arcanes are nothing more than glass cannons, big dmg low def and thats exactly what they should be, if you want to get more out of the physical aspect of a veno attack this is what pets are for they also debuf armours yadda yadda , they do much more than just op bleeds. Giving venos high damage phys weapons to match the damage of the magic weapons so they can go into heavy armour and maintain the ability to kill as before is just ridiculous. If it were to happen then it would only be right to go back to an early point I made of giving ep's and mages the same option, weapons that allowed them to do huge magic dmg while being able to wear heavy gear , due to the fact they have no physical attacks.

Now does that seem right to you?

I fully appreciate that arcane isnt everyones cup of tea, but it has its purposes for the high mag requirements, if you choose to go into a survivability mode, be it in light armour or heavy then you should acknowledge that you just became nothing more than a support char and will find killing anything without help very difficult.

Have you ever even played a veno? Sure they had the ability to kinda nuke and veno pets covered phy damage in pwi, but here even an AA class can reach 15k+ phy def from all the +vit. So they kinda lose the glass bit and even as a 150 bm, I only took 5k from a full magic veno and I didn't even have magical marrow on so they can't really hit me like a cannon. Fox form was also actually meant for phy damage too but wasn't used to much as a veno pets bleed was glitched and did massive damage in pwi, but the pets base damage is pretty minimal at 150 and that makes even the glitched damage fairly low. Plus, you can just raise str requirements for heavy armor. That way there won't be any HA wizzes or clerics and most venos in HA/AA build don't have the ability to equip the most up to level weapons and armor due to the spread of points into magic, strength AND dex.

Offline g0rml3ss

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Have you ever even played a veno? Sure they had the ability to kinda nuke and veno pets covered phy damage in pwi, but here even an AA class can reach 15k+ phy def from all the +vit. So they kinda lose the glass bit and even as a 150 bm, I only took 5k from a full magic veno and I didn't even have magical marrow on so they can't really hit me like a cannon. Fox form was also actually meant for phy damage too but wasn't used to much as a veno pets bleed was glitched and did massive damage in pwi, but the pets base damage is pretty minimal at 150 and that makes even the glitched damage fairly low. Plus, you can just raise str requirements for heavy armor. That way there won't be any HA wizzes or clerics and most venos in HA/AA build don't have the ability to equip the most up to level weapons and armor due to the spread of points into magic, strength AND dex.

nope never played a veno or any other class except *cough* VIM *cough* *

*rolls eyes*

again you read straight past my point, why should one arcance class have an option to go heavy build AND retain the ability to kill with a tailor made physical weapon? (what the op is basically requesting) if you wanted a phys damage veno then make a barb , isnt that the point of every race having
A) 1 physical class
B) 1 arcane class
so your point on raising the str requirement on heavy gear to stop  wiz and cleric is relevant to my point how? cos what I said was WHY should a veno get the option and not a wiz or cleric too ? if they dont wanna play arcane class dont make an arcane char, hardly bloody rocket science is it.

Offline Coffee

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I think any class can be any build they want to be. This is a private server, where people go to NOT play pwi. If people want chars to be played the exact way they should be they can go to pwi D: But yea venos are actually OP as arcanes now with morai skills anyways if you know how to play them. I honestly think nothing needs to be changed for anything at the momment. Besides aps on pataka for HA/LA venos since the phys dmg was raised but aps never were so its kinda pointless @_@ 

also: Patakas mag req needs to be lowered.
Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 06:12 am by Coffee

Offline Feone

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g0rm your entire point is based around "veno's have magic thus they shouldn't have phys". This just isn't correct. Veno's are a very mixed play style. Again please either read the class description & skill list or go away.

Coffee, I don't think OP is entirely right. Sure pure magic veno's using a glaive hit hard, but a sin can kill them unsparked in about 3-4 seconds.  On the other hand they can go HA and hit low but take a few hits. If any APS class can kill the veno in seconds it only makes sense that the veno can do the same to some of them xD.

Yea I think a bit of APS with lower mag req would do the trick, Pataka's  alreayd make you hit a lot less on magic so some usefull (usefull, not devastating, before you complain about this g0rm.) physical damage could be good if they sacrifice the chan/mag atk that comes with a glaive or other wep. If they retain the ability to deal magic damage they shouldn't hit like a regular physical DD, just for their melee skills (one of them is a 2spark even) to hit 300-500 damage on 30-50k hp players...

Offline Coffee

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g0rm your entire point is based around "veno's have magic thus they shouldn't have phys". This just isn't correct. Veno's are a very mixed play style. Again please either read the class description & skill list or go away.

Coffee, I don't think OP is entirely right. Sure pure magic veno's using a glaive hit hard, but a sin can kill them unsparked in about 3-4 seconds.  On the other hand they can go HA and hit low but take a few hits. If any APS class can kill the veno in seconds it only makes sense that the veno can do the same to some of them xD.

Yea I think a bit of APS with lower mag req would do the trick, Pataka's  alreayd make you hit a lot less on magic so some usefull (usefull, not devastating, before you complain about this g0rm.) physical damage could be good if they sacrifice the chan/mag atk that comes with a glaive or other wep. If they retain the ability to deal magic damage they shouldn't hit like a regular physical DD, just for their melee skills (one of them is a 2spark even) to hit 300-500 damage on 30-50k hp players...

You must not know new veno morai skills :0
Me and Syri tested them out. With the doll and her new bramble that works in pvp (the bramble also stacks with bramble hood) they can take a bit more and do a bit more. I mean yes there squishy but with the right mindset they can handle themselves. And Ive played a veno for years, using genie/pills/ skills at right times you can easily defend yourself against melee classes. Its just OI or ganks which make venos ultimate paper. :0

Offline Elly

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nvm >.< nab android
Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 07:32 am by Elly

Elly - 150 Sage venomancer
Decipher - 150 Demon mystic

[22:32:11] Chad: the name rev
[22:32:13] Chad: is foul language

Offline g0rml3ss

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g0rm your entire point is based around "veno's have magic thus they shouldn't have phys". This just isn't correct. Veno's are a very mixed play style. Again please either read the class description & skill list or go away.

Your entire argument is based on I have phys skills too so I should be as effective as any other phys class when it comes to physical damage, just simply isnt the case, as you rightly say they are "mixed" meaning tehy should utilise both not be masters of both.

@coffee "I think any class can be any build they want to be. This is a private server, where people go to NOT play pwi. If people want chars to be played the exact way they should be they can go to pwi D: "

then can I please have a tailored made ep weapon that will allow me to full heavy gear, maintain my current cast speed and my 90k damage. Thnx in advance :)

Offline Coffee

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Your entire argument is based on I have phys skills too so I should be as effective as any other phys class when it comes to physical damage, just simply isnt the case, as you rightly say they are "mixed" meaning tehy should utilise both not be masters of both.

@coffee "I think any class can be any build they want to be. This is a private server, where people go to NOT play pwi. If people want chars to be played the exact way they should be they can go to pwi D: "

then can I please have a tailored made ep weapon that will allow me to full heavy gear, maintain my current cast speed and my 90k damage. Thnx in advance :)

Pretty sure I said nothing about giving them stuff like that. I mean if a magic class WISHES TO GO A DIFFERENT GEAR BUILD TYPE THEY CAN. For example a veno can be HA and do DECENT phys dmg but crap magic dmg. Stop trying to be rude and sarcastic when clearly your not understanding what im trying to say -_-

Offline g0rml3ss

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Pretty sure I said nothing about giving them stuff like that. I mean if a magic class WISHES TO GO A DIFFERENT GEAR BUILD TYPE THEY CAN. For example a veno can be HA and do DECENT phys dmg but crap magic dmg. Stop trying to be rude and sarcastic when clearly your not understanding what im trying to say -_-

lol who's trying to be rude and sarcastic? if that was my intention that indeed is what I would be, you know me well enough to know that.

OP is basically asking for tailor made phys weap so they can go ha and not sacrifice damage (mag loss would be made up with the phys increase), I'm clearly questioning why they should have that option when if they decide to go ha they should accept the flaws in doing so, not be compensated for their loss as is the case with any other elemental class that chooses survivability over natural build.

You pipe up with they can be any build they wish, this isnt pwi blah blah and suggest maybe I should go play pwi? (atleast thats how your comment reads) I never once referenced chars here should be played as intended, several times I said more options should be open how ever people should be willing to accept the negatives when choosing these desired builds.

Maybe try read the  WHOLE thing and not just jump in on a whim, for you clearly have missed a whole bunch of what I'm saying.

Offline Feone

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I have another suggestion for an alternate topic build. Let's just ignore what G0rmless says untill he decides to stop trolling and/or read about the classes & what other people say.

Offline g0rml3ss

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I have another suggestion for an alternate topic build. Let's just ignore what G0rmless says untill he decides to stop trolling and/or read about the classes & what other people say.

Someone's opinion varying to your own is not trolling, and you still have yet to answer the simple question.

If you choose to go HA build on veno why should you have the option of a physical weapon to compensate for the damage you sacrifice from mag ? By all means choose HA if that is your desire, but accept the the negatives along with the positives, don't moan about your damage and expect to have a boosted phys weapon.

I don't need to read the classes yet again thnx, they are self explanatory, venos require a set amount of mag points to equip magical weapons for a reason.
Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 08:04 am by g0rml3ss

Offline Feone

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I already did answer that. Unlike regular arcanes veno skillset isn't exclusively magical. They have a large array of physical attack based skills that have no base in magic whatsoever.

Offline g0rml3ss

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I already did answer that. Unlike regular arcanes veno skillset isn't exclusively magical. They have a large array of physical attack based skills that have no base in magic whatsoever.
and they are designated to arcane armours, why should you have a phys weapon if u decided to alter your stats for heavier set ? you should accept you are straying from the "natural" build and be willing to accept the will be negatives to go along with the positive, in this scenario you sacrifice a huge amount of damage for a huge increase in  phys def (heavy armour + fox form boost) and not really a huge decrease in elemental def due to the fact you will still need a decent amount of mag to equip a weapon.

So basically you just want everything?

Easiest way would be make a barb and reskin it to a fox ?

Offline Feone

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*sigh* you don't read our posts do you? Anyway, your opinion on the subject is noted. Now please leave the topic open for people who have some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism rather than this continuous repost of your first poorly informed comment.

Offline Coffee

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Want me to just lock the thread? Clearly this just a revolving door .-.