Comprehensive class guide for balance

[Ninja]

+ interval as in it slows them down. Or the same effect chill of the deep has, since you cant go over 2.5 aps with sage chill of the deep. (Tested using it and a GM genie that makes crossbows hit 5.0).

So cap it at 1 aps with GoF, less damage than aps daggers but much higher hits.

[studmuffin]

+ interval as in it slows them down. Or the same effect chill of the deep has, since you cant go over 2.5 aps with sage chill of the deep. (Tested using it and a GM genie that makes crossbows hit 5.0).

So cap it at 1 aps with GoF, less damage than aps daggers but much higher hits.

this would have to be tested but I think this might kill the class.... i don't see a sin being able to kill a seeker or a BM and much less a barb with 1 aps and GoF... i wanna balance them in pk not make them underpowered

[micropanther]

1. Veno's pets need to do more damage and be more survivable. Elly brought it up once and I will bring it up again. Mystic pets can out DD a veno's pet, which is just ridiculous. Part of being a veno is depending on your pet for support, but even a level 150 buffed Herc can get 1-2 shot quiet often. So maybe up their max HP or Pdef/Mdef so they can actually be of help. Also give them a bit more damage because 200-300 doesn't cut it against a Mystics 700-900 or more.

I have to..third, is that the word? lol... what Elly and synsong said.  This is from a pure pve standpoint too.  If you're AA, because the pets damage and survivability just doesn't cut it against some mobs/bosses, there's a high risk of stealing aggro.  Then it's buh-bye squishy mage!  Even if you do nerf your damage output to let the pet tank, it's likely to die from an aoe.

As an aside, I once read somewhere that a veno who farmed TT, would put a weight on the "heal pet" button, and go make a cup of tea, do some reading etc whilst the pet was tanking LOL.

Regarding cleric in pve scenario, the only thing I would like to see is an AOE Purify.  I don't know if that would be considered OP, or even if it is do-able?

[Delirium]

In my opinion, without the APS, seekers would definitely be underpowered. In this server, you either need to be able to hit extremely hard to kill or be able to aps someone to death. Hit for hit, seekers don't deal enough damage to kill someone just by spamming skills. They don't hit as hard as wizards or psychics so there's no way for them to get an effective kill unless they get extremely lucky with a couple of zerk crits. However, I could be wrong. I just haven't seen a seeker be able to one-shot unless they waste everything in sparking and debuffing.

Unfortunatly it's true, however descent helps seekers as they get waht was it about 15% damage increase? But I was shocked to find that a full R9 Seeker had 15k attack tops, which is only about 2k more than what a Sin has, I was expecting more Archer range of attack.

I do believe their long swords need a damage increase.

__________

Hey the GoF dags where my idea. :<

@Stud - On full R9 with R9 dags their Aps is like 0.62 with chill of the deep, I suggested to add +Interval (Making their interval of attack a lot higher) so they can't APS you at all but as a skill spam class would still be able to kill you but require skill and it be a lot more balanced.

this would have to be tested but I think this might kill the class.... i don't see a sin being able to kill a seeker or a BM and much less a barb with 1 aps and GoF... i wanna balance them in pk not make them underpowered

Sins weren't meant to kill HA users, just because they could with APS doesn't mean they should.

[hotflamie]

Sins weren't meant to kill HA users, just because they could with APS doesn't mean they should.

A full dd class is supposed to kill, if not what should?.......
If you wanna make GoF dags with low int, atleast i think daggers needs a raise of attacks.. if we compare to say.. barb. i dont know their exact aps with auto attack with -int and polaxe, but i'd guess ~1.2-1.4. They have much higher base dmg then sins and GoF on their current endgame wep. So even if a sin did ctod with GoF dags and either spammed skills or auto it would be slower and lower dmg. Looking at basic skills the total channel+cast is around 1.5sec (none chi using skills low lvl basic attacks) so we would have lower dmg with a chance to do same dmg as an autoattacking tank class, which also can do more hits per sec and have a stronger skill set with skills like AB and Arma....
Rethink the capping if ur going to implement GoF dags,(or give sins a mage/barb like attack to weight up for what we lack in range/survivability with nerfing, i mean if you'r going to cap aps.)
I just checked my aps with cotd(demon version) 1,67, with +0.1 int it should be at around 1-1.1 aps(i dont know the exact numbers). So my dmg aps is around the same as for barbs, with cotd and gof dags, still my dmg in that would be lower since 30 atk lvls wont allow me to reach the lvls a barb do... and i hope ppl is starting to see my point now.
And i saw something about full r9 with cotd was like 0.6x(?) aps. i dont know the attack lvls but that would put a sin at slightly higher dmg then barb(counting auto attacks) and r9 doesnt have sacrificial/gof, not counting that is around half the aps of a auto attacking barb in this server

I feel like i've started to go offtopic so ill drop it here and might edit it or something l8r, to tired atm

[ABBADON]

i strongly disagree with you here

Mkay.

Lawl you just mentioned that the APS seekers have currently are NOT enough. You want to be able to hit at 5.0 unsparked now or what?

Now if you're referring to up the APS on the sword with the God of frenzy, then you sir are sourly mistaken. Anything with God of frenzy in it should NOT have anymore added interval.

When did I mention anything about GoF?

Seekers shouldn't have to alter their gear just to get some APS because they hit too low otherwise. Increase the sword damage as someone said ( Im too lazy to quote and I gtg .-. ) Without sage sparking the damage that most skills of a seeker do here are funny enough to lol at -.-

[Delirium]

Sometimes I think people have forgotten the core mechanics of the game, I give up. >-<

[Elly]

Actually, every class should have equal chances of killing other class. If sins weren't supposed to kill barbs, then events such as UFC would be meaningless.

[Chum]

About mystic pets out-dding veno pets: where are you getting that 700-900 from? o.o My chihyu only hits around 200-300 on the average endgame player, and still gets 1-2 shot just like a veno pet. :/ Cragglord is really the only pet that hits around those numbers, and even then, he costs 2 sparks to summon, and stays out for 20-23 seconds. I can think of 101 better uses for those two sparks, personally.

And i saw something about full r9 with cotd was like 0.6x(?) aps. i dont know the attack lvls but that would put a sin at slightly higher dmg then barb(counting auto attacks) and r9 doesnt have sacrificial/gof, not counting that is around half the aps of a auto attacking barb in this server

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/28506

[Elly]

About mystic pets out-dding veno pets: where are you getting that 700-900 from? o.o My chihyu only hits around 200-300 on the average endgame player, and still gets 1-2 shot just like a veno pet. :/ Cragglord is really the only pet that hits around those numbers, and even then, he costs 2 sparks to summon, and stays out for 20-23 seconds. I can think of 101 better uses for those two sparks, personally.

Salvation of another lv150 mystic was hitting me for 1000's with 10k pdef. I don't know about survivability but I don't see their pets dying as much as nix.

[Zaibeast']

Mkay.

 When did I mention anything about GoF?

Seekers shouldn't have to alter their gear just to get some APS because they hit too low otherwise. Increase the sword damage as someone said ( Im too lazy to quote and I gtg .-. ) Without sage sparking the damage that most skills of a seeker do here are funny enough to lol at -.-

You were  referring to Seekers NOT having enough APS. There are two types of swords seekers can use (not sure if you know this lol). One of them has interval with lower damage. The other has a much slower base speed with god of frenzy on it. So which sword are you referring to? You were complaining earlier about seekers not having enough interval, so I assumed you were referring to the sword with the slower attack speed. Any increase in interval on that sword will be way too OP. Sorry, I rather not see seekers running around zerk-criting someone with an APS sword if that is what you were aiming at. 

Now you're saying that seekers should be able to reach those APS and have an increase in damage? LOL. Here is something you failed to consider regarding that statement. Altering your gear to get the max aps requires you to get the interval cape and a couple of LA pieces. This DOES NOT lower your damage; it lowers your survivability. You can't have both. Any class that wants to increase their APS HAS to lose survivability. Otherwise, APS will be even more OP.

[Zaibeast']

Unfortunatly it's true, however descent helps seekers as they get waht was it about 15% damage increase? But I was shocked to find that a full R9 Seeker had 15k attack tops, which is only about 2k more than what a Sin has, I was expecting more Archer range of attack.

I do believe their long swords need a damage increase.

__________

Hey the GoF dags where my idea. :<

@Stud - On full R9 with R9 dags their Aps is like 0.62 with chill of the deep, I suggested to add +Interval (Making their interval of attack a lot higher) so they can't APS you at all but as a skill spam class would still be able to kill you but require skill and it be a lot more balanced.

Sins weren't meant to kill HA users, just because they could with APS doesn't mean they should.

The difference between an archers' weapon and a seekers' weapon in PWI is that seeker weapons had God of frenzy. Whenever that procs, the damage is extremely high. There is no way in hell would I want to see a class being able to zerk-crit with an archers weapon range. Oh wait, silly me Barbs already do that 

[ABBADON]

You were  referring to Seekers NOT having enough APS. There are two types of swords seekers can use (not sure if you know this lol). One of them has interval with lower damage. The other has a much slower base speed with god of frenzy on it. So which sword are you referring to? You were complaining earlier about seekers not having enough interval, so I assumed you were referring to the sword with the slower attack speed. Any increase in interval on that sword will be way too OP. Sorry, I rather not see seekers running around zerk-criting someone with an APS sword if that is what you were aiming at. 

Now you're saying that seekers should be able to reach those APS and have an increase in damage? LOL. Here is something you failed to consider regarding that statement. Altering your gear to get the max aps requires you to get the interval cape and a couple of LA pieces. This DOES NOT lower your damage; it lowers your survivability. You can't have both. Any class that wants to increase their APS HAS to lose survivability. Otherwise, APS will be even more OP.

Then don't increase APS. Rather raise the sword damage, or Something. Why are you getting so butt hurt over this topic? Clearly we're expressing opinions, no one is  'complaing' either. And I guess that you fail to consider a lot of things, but I'm not going to get into that. All I am suggesting is that seekers could use a 'boost', so to say, as stated previously. I'm quite bored of this conversation already.

[Zaibeast']

Then don't increase APS. Rather raise the sword damage, or Something. Why are you getting so butt hurt over this topic? Clearly we're expressing opinions, no one is  'complaing' either. And I guess that you fail to consider a lot of things, but I'm not going to get into that. All I am suggesting is that seekers could use a 'boost', so to say, as stated previously. I'm quite bored of this conversation already.

Oh I'm not butt-hurt about anything. I'm just clearly expressing my opinion that seekers don't need a buff. They're perfectly fine the way they are. They're 2nd to barbs in survivability and have the ability to aps and use range skills. It's all about actually learning to play your class.

So tell me exactly what I'm failing to consider?

Again I'm clearly expressing my opinion that seekers are fine the way they are. <--- clearly shows I'm butt-hurt kay?

[Chum]

Salvation of another lv150 mystic was hitting me for 1000's with 10k pdef. I don't know about survivability but I don't see their pets dying as much as nix.

O.o I'll have to get on and test Sally's damage, but usually she hits a lot less than the devil.