Epic Perfect World

Sin change

Offline zFlashx

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It has come to my attention that several sins have come to a mutual agreement to have 1.5 Assassin skills removed to enforce the use of 1.4 skills.
On behalf of these players I would like to make a suggestion that has been brought up before, however, this time I will explain it in detail.

How would these changes affect an APS Assassin?

1. No more endless APS debuff

2. Chi management becomes difficult thus resulting into less 3sparks/spamming stun

3. Stun requires 2sparks instead of 1, no longer able to instantly cancel first hit and start auto attacking

4. Elimination being gone means one less paralyze


All of the above makes an APS sin more skill reliant to play rather than just spam cursed jail, 3spark elimination cancels.

What about DPH?

1. No more brain dead elimination spam (The skill literally hits 6 times while doing 320% of your base physical damage which on a server like Epic is completely broken.

2. No more holding down one skill (life hunter) that hits twice while instant cooldown and cast while hitting 200% of base physical damage or something ridiculous along those lines.


Now I would like to talk about skillsender. Yeah, look, this class barely reaps the benefits of skillsender that I thought it would.
Why is this?


We have 3 skills that can be put into a combo until we run out of skills.

1. Condensed Thorn (15 seconds cooldown)
2. Spell Cutter (15 seconds cooldown)
3. Toxic Torrent (30 seconds cooldown)

With the recent DPH nerf we do not have the damage to kill within this string of hits, every other skill we have takes a long time to cast so the skillsend becomes useless.

Skillsend has also messed with life hunter cancelling in a big way, rubber banding after every cancel which played a big part in sins dph kit and also aps.


Now let me talk about damage.


Assassins rank 8 had 10 attack levels removed with an additional 5 from our Chill of the Deep skill due to skillsend balancing.

In return the class received a 117% boost to Sage and Demon dagger masteries while the 5 attack levels from Chill of the deep remained gone.

You may be thinking that this change makes it all the same while DPH suffers from a 5 attack level loss but no.
After a lot of testing with Seby/Chaos, testing in all kinds of pk on my own I came to the realization that this change did nothing but make DPH worse.


My explanation on how this is a bad thing:


DPH Assassin has always been a class that scales with high end gof crits and the stacking of attack levels, somewhat similar to psychic class.
The physical attack buff makes little to no difference with our physical attack/high end gof crit.


https://gyazo.com/6f56b14f50288298a978e21cc5083686 these are my current stats without rune/ridge


Pre patch I had 119 attack levels, 40.5k physical attack without rune/ridge but the problem is.. physical attack gets cancelled out by any physical defense buff, right? which makes this change useless for DPH as we rely on spike damage and it's not there without the attack levels, especially on a server where people can reach 100 defense levels and cancel it all out.


What do we want changed?


1. Remove Elimination, Life Hunter and Cursed Jail while keeping Primal Chill of the Deep forcing sins to use 1.4 skills
2. Revert the Dagger mastery change
3. Increase Assassin rank 8 set bonus from 15 attack levels > 25 attack levels (This is so aps sin doesn't become completely useless)
4. Add 10 attack levels back to Chill of the Deep (5 back with an additional 5)
5. Increase headhunt stun time to 6 seconds

This change also compliments something that was wanted a long time ago. http://prnt.sc/dv2j5r


I want to hear your opinions below
Last Edit: Jan 13, 2017, 09:55 am by zFlashx

Offline ๖ۣۜĐomgrath

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The assassin 1.5 skills are the main reason why assassins have been constantly nerfed into the ground and considered "broken" since primal skills launched. 

Constant APS reduction versus another APS class is imbalanced in whatever way you look at it. Sin vs Sin fights (APS) consist of dancing around in circles until one of the players manages to proc past tidal. It's ridiculous.

Headhunter wasn't able to be canceled and always took 2 sparks prior to cursed jail, with the ability to cancel and only cost 1 spark with the 1.5 skill, it allows sins to have infinite amounts of chi. 

As for elimination? I remember back before 1.5 skills DPH sin required actual combos and not a single X3 spark elimination to kill someone. I don't believe this skill should exist and I've always found gameplay without it much more fun. 

If 1.5 skills were removed (since they never got nerfed in the first place) sin would be a much different class and would most likely not be as disliked in the community. Back before primal skills nobody had the amount of hatred for sin that they have now, and this constant distaste is a product of one thing: Primal skills.

Offline Аlex

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To be honest, sometimes I miss when I was playing DPH sin and legit 2-3 shotted people in mass pk or 1v1 if it was a lucky gof crit.
As for APS, it's really annoying, everyone waiting to proc Cursed Jail on tidal(seby still remember the 6 stuns on tidal :normal-1: ) and go atk mode and maybe heiro you in less than 4-5 hits

Anyway, make DPH sin great again.  :police:

Offline Jake - Peng

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# Nerf sin def+att         

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+++                                       

Offline Izuna

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Yes, I agree let's give APS/DPH sin the required skill back

Offline Insanity

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Offline Artiom

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Honestly i agree sins were nerfed all over making them complitly useless especially the dph damage, i was litterally fighting an ea last night using 37def wep and def pdef ornaments he could pretty much tank my dph damage as if it was nothing for him, i am not saying its impossible to kill one but this shuldnt had been the case, dph meant to zerk 10 of k's not 6k especially on an ea, same goes for the 1.5 skills biggest bs ever, every single sin fight turned out in a marathon of spaming life hunter 70% of the fight. As for ss i also agree and its been said before, practicly every single class benifited from ss, making them able to hiero and hit far faster... as for sins i see no difference what so ever.
На то и ум, чтобы достичь того, чего хочешь.

Offline Nea

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The 1.4 skills would bring back fun and the changes to dmg would make dph useful in mass pk and overall game
As it is atm it's quite of a useless class in mass pk and as a build dph is long dead in 1v1 scenarios against anything with a heal skill or HA based
Higher atk lvls would benefit more than phy atk, same as why psys benefit more from atk lvl than mag atk
+1 for the removal or atleast adjustements done to the class overall (atk lvls balancing etc)

Skillsender benefits sin only in combination with Toxic torrent, spell cutter and condensed while applying earthern rift somewhere at mid hp or as a finisher when u run out of skills (yes it happens)
life hunter, elimination and cursed jail casts are way too long to make skillsender anything worth using in this case DMG wise

Offline Skazy

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Honestly i agree sins were nerfed all over making them complitly useless especially the dph damage, i was litterally fighting an ea last night using 37def wep and def pdef ornaments he could pretty much tank my dph damage as if it was nothing for him, i am not saying its impossible to kill one but this shuldnt had been the case, dph meant to zerk 10 of k's not 6k especially on an ea, same goes for the 1.5 skills biggest bs ever, every single sin fight turned out in a marathon of spaming life hunter 70% of the fight. As for ss i also agree and its been said before, practicly every single class benifited from ss, making them able to hiero and hit far faster... as for sins i see no difference what so ever.
well if u look from EA pov, ea crits sin for 10k with magic skills and 5k with phys skills (2k if close range), i dislike whole idea of zerk since is completely luck based gameplay, 3spark zerkcrit on half hp and enemy is dead, and u call that a skill, not imo. u need keep in mind that every class is nerfed for a reason, im honestly happy that attack lvls were taken off the sin since u are no longer dying w.o charm tick and sin is still capable of killing an EA in like 80% of the cases, as for mass pk, i saw few sins nuking 4-5 ppl in 2skills. 

Offline Lill 🌶

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You can remove skillsender from client if it's causing you issues, I think it's useless on sin regardless. If you have the .rar file for 1.5.3 Epic, extract it and copy the elementclient.exe from that folder and replace into current 1. You will have to keep replacing every time there is an update, so I recommend keeping a copy.

Offline Bill Dipperly

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I agree with these changes, sin atm is nerfed to the ground like kalista. If you want to play sin better play archer, why archer you might ask? More damage, faster, more mobility, stealth, assassinlike skills like bv and eagleon been assassinating people for straight week(started playing activily 1 week ago again) got like ~800 kills just by killing people 1 by 1 with 3 spark bv from stealth(in other town 3 spark->stealth--> sig with blue name alt --> completely delete anyone no counterplay no matter how many buffs no matter how tanky it is), alot more tanky than sin, and if u make mistake u will certainly not get punished for it due to so many escape abilities, and lets not mention that ridicilous ct with a debuff bow lmfae. As Zsw or Marko once said i forgot archer is fine replacement for a sin but now its completely different main assassin class is archer and sin is 2nd one(is why i play archer nowadays; 0 skill required, utterly op, better assassin than the actual assassin class)
Last Edit: Jan 13, 2017, 11:20 am by Maxy

Offline Feitan

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+1 totally agreed, sin gameplay is so ridicilous nowdays, cursed jail =required 2 sparks  instead of wasting 2 it waste 1.
1.5 skills is dumb af ,alot of sins pray for luck on cursed jail,spaming canceled life hunter 0.1 sec and elimination 
some of sins have good def and tank whole cursed jail. like some dont even camp def and even shadow teleport though tidal is enough to kill them
1.4 requireds more skils and its more fun then 1.5 
Last Edit: Jan 13, 2017, 11:30 am by Lucifer⛧

Offline Maxime

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Yes I agree would make the class fun again aswell, the new skills are just stupid if you ask me, so was the atk lvl nerf. The dagger mastery change barely did anything, if anything anyway. Sin isn't even close to good atm so bringing ballance to it while making it more fun definitely agree big +1

Offline Bill Dipperly

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also i have 200IQ suggestion let sins 3 spark in stealth without revealing them!!!!