Venomencers suggestion.

[Adversition]

Trust me.. Once you know how spammable veno's demon armorcrush is, you'll reconsider them being pure AA.

As for lacking damage in claws:

The thing I like about this server is variety. It's good that you can be a HA veno while still being able to equip decent magic weapons (thought -requirement stats are useless?). I personally think that venos should be allowed to have claws. They got like many said masteries, sparks that can focus on melee etc. Would be really nice if they got more variety, so people interested in clawveno will come and make this less of a dying class.

[~TheQueenB~]

+1 Kest

[Robbert]

as a longtime player of PWI/freeserves, and also one who has played all three builds on veno...I think the suggestion for us to be able to use claws here is a good one. Its really all about personal choices with venos...and what you love or want to do with yours in game.  I have had pure AA, which of corse is very lovely. LA..which is a BLAST on PWI as I was able to put on some sexxy claws and my Kitty was a fun lil killin machine.  HA also.. beautiful lil tanks....as annoying to try to kill as a solid Cata build barb LOL ..so again depends on choices and what makes people happy in their game experience.  Anytime we are able to expand our thinking outside the box....Im in agreement.  this is Free server at its finest...the ability to move above and beyond the limits placed on us in PWI pay to play. Im all about pushing limits of the classes and allowing each to find our "happy place" LOL.

Aye, also what I'm asking for isn't some new feature that I want to be added, it's a viable build that for some reason was removed in here. I'm really hoping to get to play claw veno again soon.

[~TheQueenB~]

me too Robert !!

[Tali]

What can you say, though? Venos are amazing for trying out different builds. Personally I am an AA tank build, I cast very slow, but I do some nice damage output for how slow I cast, and can take a few hits before I drop.

The problem with venomancers is that due to their hybrid builds, you will always have at least one weakness. Fast casting venomancers may find themselves dying due to being pinned down and APS'd to death; HA venos many find magic to drop them pretty fast; in my case, I cast slow as hell and must rely on debuff procs/crits to really take my opponent down (but is a godsend in mass pk/TW)

Claw wielding venos wouldn't be that unbalanced, IMO. It's not like they will have amazing defenses like their barb counterparts due to their mdef/pdef being so distributed even in AA. Of course people might take to glitching claws, but hey, we can't have nice things because someone always has to ruin it. 

[Robbert]

What can you say, though? Venos are amazing for trying out different builds. Personally I am an AA tank build, I cast very slow, but I do some nice damage output for how slow I cast, and can take a few hits before I drop.

The problem with venomancers is that due to their hybrid builds, you will always have at least one weakness. Fast casting venomancers may find themselves dying due to being pinned down and APS'd to death; HA venos many find magic to drop them pretty fast; in my case, I cast slow as hell and must rely on debuff procs/crits to really take my opponent down (but is a godsend in mass pk/TW)

Claw wielding venos wouldn't be that unbalanced, IMO. It's not like they will have amazing defenses like their barb counterparts due to their mdef/pdef being so distributed even in AA. Of course people might take to glitching claws, but hey, we can't have nice things because someone always has to ruin it. 

You go gurl. Claws veno pls sirs.

[Darunia ஜ]

I think a happy medium would be to have veno-only claws.  Someone suggested this on PWI and I thought it wasn't a bad idea--it would have the physical attack of normal fists/claws (maybe a little more), but it will have magic attack as well, so for whatever reason if you need to cast magic, you can actually do more than 100 damage.  Not sure if it's possible to convert certain claws to something like that, but I wouldn't mind trying a fist build veno if that was implemented because I've seen it work.

[Robbert]

I think a happy medium would be to have veno-only claws.  Someone suggested this on PWI and I thought it wasn't a bad idea--it would have the physical attack of normal fists/claws (maybe a little more), but it will have magic attack as well, so for whatever reason if you need to cast magic, you can actually do more than 100 damage.  Not sure if it's possible to convert certain claws to something like that, but I wouldn't mind trying a fist build veno if that was implemented because I've seen it work.

Doesn't sound bad, but I wouldn't mind not having any mag damage on claws either, switching to pataka to cast the skills wouldn't be 2 much trouble.

[ZionStar]

If you're going to go that far, with veno-only claws.. Just make it a whip!

[kitty stew]

What can you say, though? Venos are amazing for trying out different builds. Personally I am an AA tank build, I cast very slow, but I do some nice damage output for how slow I cast, and can take a few hits before I drop.

The problem with venomancers is that due to their hybrid builds, you will always have at least one weakness. Fast casting venomancers may find themselves dying due to being pinned down and APS'd to death; HA venos many find magic to drop them pretty fast; in my case, I cast slow as hell and must rely on debuff procs/crits to really take my opponent down (but is a godsend in mass pk/TW)

Claw wielding venos wouldn't be that unbalanced, IMO. It's not like they will have amazing defenses like their barb counterparts due to their mdef/pdef being so distributed even in AA. Of course people might take to glitching claws, but hey, we can't have nice things because someone always has to ruin it. 

In TW on my AA build veno I've rarely ever found myself pinned down. Partly it's because I never stay still, secondly, because rather than do a typical sage build I see most veno's do in TW, I instead went demon to keep speed to stay alive as the phys def bonus for sage FF mean nothing to an archer. Making use of skills like bewitch, blazing barrier, purge, amp, demon SS, nova, etc. make a caster veno an extremely annoying force for an opposing team. I also did, at lvl 148 with demonic gear, 6-12k parasitic nova which doubly amps a number of people in the group on AOE's making a follow-up NG pretty effective and not too bad.

I wouldn't mind playing my sage again if more were catered to maybe add -int to a LA or HA build veno, like secondary r8 wrists/chest/wep with -int. This can be done maintaining the intended spirit of the veno which was to still be somewhat of a caster. Just like the veno was given phys dmg, phys def, accuracy, and phys atk bonuses with FF and spark for a reason, they also require using a magic wep to use skills for a reason. I think more should be done to make a select few magic weapons for veno (like the pataka) cater more to phys dmg/interval than cater to a fist veno so a veno isn't so one dimensional and rightfully unable to use skills.

[Darunia ஜ]

If you're going to go that far, with veno-only claws.. Just make it a whip!

I wouldn't mind a whip either...and there were supposed to be whips in PWI, but I guess they scrapped the idea.  Sad, that was an awesome idea for a weapon.

[Barbie]

I wont say this is a terrible idea, but I fail to see your logic in allowing a veno to use aps weapons. To my understanding venos are a magic class and use monsters to assist them. As a magic class, your skill points are orintated towards magic. APS/Claws are STR orientated (Unless you're a sin then its Dex) why on earth would you change your class's role like that? I fail to see the logic. You are not the only one though, I see plenty of fail barbs running around with light armour on (o.o) If you want an APS character why dont you use an APS character? What gives the game its variety is the range of characters and their 'unique' abilities. The only characters I've seen constantly fulfill their actual roles in EPW are Wizards and Phys (And venos until now), everyone else wants to play another character, and it's all surrounded by APS. *Shakes head in disaproval 

[Robbert]

I wont say this is a terrible idea, but I fail to see your logic in allowing a veno to use aps weapons. To my understanding venos are a magic class and use monsters to assist them. As a magic class, your skill points are orintated towards magic. APS/Claws are STR orientated (Unless you're a sin then its Dex) why on earth would you change your class's role like that? I fail to see the logic. You are not the only one though, I see plenty of fail barbs running around with light armour on (o.o) If you want an APS character why dont you use an APS character? What gives the game its variety is the range of characters and their 'unique' abilities. The only characters I've seen constantly fulfill their actual roles in EPW are Wizards and Phys (And venos until now), everyone else wants to play another character, and it's all surrounded by APS. *Shakes head in disaproval 

Edit your message so it looks less offensive, then I might consider replying.

[Darunia ஜ]

Well, what I think it is is that people don't see venos JUST as a magic class with a pet.  They are versatile; they can get away with wearing all types of armor, and they also have the highest vit-to-hp modifier of all "arcane" classes (12 hp per vit).  I've seen venos (mostly HA) who don't bother to even bring out their pets, because they are DD in themselves. 

Do I think that venos should be allowed to use fists/claws?  I would suggest the alternative veno-only claws  (or whips, but the claws would be easier to implement) rather than the existing ones. 

As for your point about Wizzies and Psys being the only classes fulfilling their roles as magic AA DD, I will agree there, but like on PWI, alternative builds of wizzies and psychics usually are frowned upon.  HA psychic will do zero damage in white voodoo (but will be a bit of a pain to get down, and still is squishier than natural HA classes).  HA wizzies...uhh, there is a reason why even LA wizzies go AA after.

[Scylla]

I wont say this is a terrible idea, but I fail to see your logic in allowing a veno to use aps weapons. To my understanding venos are a magic class and use monsters to assist them. As a magic class, your skill points are orintated towards magic. APS/Claws are STR orientated (Unless you're a sin then its Dex) why on earth would you change your class's role like that? I fail to see the logic. You are not the only one though, I see plenty of fail barbs running around with light armour on (o.o) If you want an APS character why dont you use an APS character? What gives the game its variety is the range of characters and their 'unique' abilities. The only characters I've seen constantly fulfill their actual roles in EPW are Wizards and Phys (And venos until now), everyone else wants to play another character, and it's all surrounded by APS. *Shakes head in disaproval 

Venomancers aren't just casters, they have a physical counterpart, which is something no other caster has. For example, a cleric wanting cleric only claws would be stupid, when should a cleric be physically attacking anyone? However, venomancers were given that option in their skills, and while they were probably meant to use both forms back and forth, you really only seem caster form venos that use foxform for its debuffs. In my opinion, it could always be switched. A veno that is in foxform all the time but goes caster form for the debuffs.

Now, in relation to your second point, not every character does the same thing. A APS sin is not going to be able to fulfill an APS venomancer's role, nor vice versa. Same with a APS Blademaster or whatever. Blademasters were meant to be full HA as well, but most aren't. Are they fail as well? Its trying new things and adapting. I think its pointless to look down on something that hasn't been tested or even put into the game yet.

Not very well read through so probably some mistakes but you get the point.

Anyways, I like the idea and fully support it.