attack and def lvl stones

[iSleepy]

The only reason I'm against adding more attack/def levels is that r8 is sufficient enough.

Case in point:



With this pataka, I have 71 attack levels. A lot of phys classes that aren't in r8 take 8-10k+ hits on a good day.
Given that a venomancer is one of the weakest magic classes in the game, adding attack level shards, well, I'd be sitting with about 100+.  Wouldn't feel very balanced at that point.

so...u use ure r8 weapon to demonstrate why this shouldnt be done when the person specified that the point would be to make dragon gear viable again against people that have rediculously high attack lvls or def lvls suchs as ureself due to r8... interesting...admittedly this would be pretty silly since r8 users would also get the bonus from those stones but adding say attack lvl stones to dragon gear could well surpass the natural def lvls granted by r8. i agree that something should be done to try to level the playing field for r8 and dragon users since pw really starts to suck when winners are determined by gear but...eh just my opinion. im pretty sure the people that have either taken a lot of time to farm or donate for their r8 gears believe they should have an edge over the people that just for the most voted for dragon...if i can further state my opinion it would be that r8 shouldnt have been introduced at all or have fixed stats so that things dont get overboard to the point where people get 1 shot instantly...i mean seriously thats really disheartening but yea...i dont really think that att lvl and def lvl stones would solve this problem that i see ( pretty sure a lot of people dont see this as a problem but like i said already im just speaking my mind not hating on people that worked their asses off for their gear ) ps. i think somethings wrong with ure values...when i played my gf's wf i hit quite a lot harder than that and she got her r8 and dragon child long after i tried it...of course im refering to while i was self buffed of course

[Vengeous ~]

If you wanna talk about balance, take away a mystics ability to heal >.> 
Haha but being srs, think of a psy in black with like 33 atk lvls and i think -1 def lvls thanks to the dragon gear bonuses o.o buut add some JOSD to that psy and hes got the atk of a wiz and a def of a seeker. Add some atk shards too and make him hitler while you're at it

[Tali]

so...u use ure r8 weapon to demonstrate why this shouldnt be done when the person specified that the point would be to make dragon gear viable again against people that have rediculously high attack lvls or def lvls suchs as ureself due to r8... interesting..

Dragon gear wouldn't be the only gear that could use the stones if they were implemented.

My point was that, as a venomancer, one of the weakest mages in the game, hitting the amount I do on dragon geared physical players would only be increased tenfold if these stones were implemented. As I said, I currently have 71 attack levels, 91 enraged. If attk/def level stones were implemented, I would be VERY hard to kill (I'm very easy to kill atm) as I would have no qualms about fully sharding DEF.

Also god damn it people use paragraphs or spacing PLEASE I'm fullblind.

[Nevyn]

But this is where my argument stands, we already have runes available that add about +6 attk/def levels to your weapon, so I see no real reason to add any attack/def level stones.

Adding to weapons only was purely for my example only. I am not suggesting this. My point remains valid, rises are proportional even with runes.

[Tali]

Adding to weapons only was purely for my example only. I am not suggesting this. My point remains valid, rises are proportional even with runes.

Really, all I'm trying to get across is that I feel like attack and defense level stones shouldn't be added, as the difference between dragon and r8 bonuses are too great.
If I can get 71 attack levels with r8 + warsong and cube, adding the stones will cause a huge imbalance in my favour.

Given that dragon only adds about 8 attack and 10 defense levels (or something like that) a person would never be able to get the amount of attack levels a rank 8 would have even IF they fully sharded themselves with say, DoTs. (Versus a fully DoT sharded rank 8 character, of course)

Unless dragon set bonuses got a boost, anyone with r8 will still trump them with the 25 attack and defense level bonuses, weapon not included.

There are different ways to balance the gap between dragon and r8, but I don't think that adding stones would be it. No matter what, r8 has an advantage over dragon, and even with stones, they still would factoring the set bonus differences.

[ZionStar]

Really? You want to face all those seekers with insane defense and attack? With more defense and more attack?
You mean Tali didn't prove the point already? Proved it to me.

I think what you are not taking into consideration here is that not everyone is rank 8. I think they may appreciate the extra attack/defence levels to help compete the rankers.

Either this is complete troll, or some one is being an idiot. Every one has the ability to get Rank 8 easily. Just requires you to work a little for it. If that really bugged you so much, you could get the rank and gear yourself. Stop being lazy, and work for it.

[Nightstalk]

Some people have clearly never been on a diff server with def and atk lvl stones for gear+weap..
This server, EPW, is damn good and fine as it is now with gear.

[joachiem]

Off topic, daystalk, your sig made me lol, you suck, and that is after witnessing you in PK once, spamming random survival skills vs 1 lv 149 sin.

[Nightstalk]

Off topic, daystalk, your sig made me lol, you suck, and that is after witnessing you in PK once, spamming random survival skills vs 1 lv 149 sin.

I do believe my sig just made it very clear why I have it there. You need a life kid. not even sad, but yet so true.
And for some more facts, don't try to be something you really can't, u just fail at it when u hijack a thread like that, u embarrassing yourself only and no one else.

[Runaway]

Nooo def stones & atk lvl stones suck. That's the reason why I came to this server.  I already disliked that they add r8 & def+atk lvl to dragon gear  :sad: but w/e

[Adversition]

Nah.

I'm pretty sure it has been explained thoroughly and clearly in some paragraphs of 5000 words or so already, not gonna bother putting more. It was removed for balance reasons. It's obvious why it was removed, right?

[Nevyn]

Really, all I'm trying to get across is that I feel like attack and defense level stones shouldn't be added, as the difference between dragon and r8 bonuses are too great.
If I can get 71 attack levels with r8 + warsong and cube, adding the stones will cause a huge imbalance in my favour.

Given that dragon only adds about 8 attack and 10 defense levels (or something like that) a person would never be able to get the amount of attack levels a rank 8 would have even IF they fully sharded themselves with say, DoTs. (Versus a fully DoT sharded rank 8 character, of course)

Unless dragon set bonuses got a boost, anyone with r8 will still trump them with the 25 attack and defense level bonuses, weapon not included.

There are different ways to balance the gap between dragon and r8, but I don't think that adding stones would be it. No matter what, r8 has an advantage over dragon, and even with stones, they still would factoring the set bonus differences.

Rank 8 will trump, because it's superior. I'll once again point out that I'm not backing this idea. But it simply will not unbalance a thing because of said reasons. This thread is not about making dragon more like r8 its simply a suggestion on allowing attack and defence levels to any armour. Let's forget rank gear and dragon gear and say adding defence levels will help aa classes in pv and whatever happens in PvP is irrelevant because the gains are relational

[Nevyn]

Really? You want to face all those seekers with insane defense and attack? With more defense and more attack?
You mean Tali didn't prove the point already? Proved it to me.
Either this is complete troll, or some one is being an idiot. Every one has the ability to get Rank 8 easily. Just requires you to work a little for it. If that really bugged you so much, you could get the rank and gear yourself. Stop being lazy, and work for it.

1. I'm already rank 8, I know it's easy to get, why are you telling me this?
2. This thread is nothing to do with rank gear, you are poorly paraphrasing me from an example given to me by someone else. Grow up
3. Explain to me how I'm trolling this forum? Because as far as I can see, you are the only idiot here.

[Tali]

Nevyn, you have been making valid points and I enjoy your debating, don't worry about it. 


Anyway, I still stand that Dragon could use some buffs but I think it should be something that isn't readily available to r8 characters as well.

[Auriel]

WARNING: LONG POST

Before i start lemme say two things:
1) This post may come off a little angry at times, this is not the case. It is passionate, not agro
2) Although most of the time thes threads come from people too lazy to get R8 and simply want an "easy way", i dont think that was the case this time and that xdnoypidx was merely curious.
Ok, let this post commence and please bear with me. Its long, but it has alot of good points.

To all you people who say adding stones wouldnt unbalance anything because it would be readily available to everyone, could not be more wrong. I've been working my butt off on seeker to get r8 and WS belt (mostly farmed btw) and have managed to work up 102 def lvls. Yet i STILL can get stronger if i get dragonchild or cube neck, or better r8 stats. I've had wizzies blast me with def, and fire def debuffs and STILL had crits hitting no harder than 12k. I have also survived 7v1 ganks (i've also lost several of those too, so im not bragging about anything. this is merely to prove a point) so with JoSD, i could add 96 more def lvls to 102 + 5 more if i ever get cube neck, and i'd have 203 def lvls (155 if they do the def cut where you get 2 def lvls instead of 4). With that kind of defence, and the ability to pass any debuffs that you use to make me easier to kill, to my enemies making THEM easier to kill instead of me (plus i have blitz so i can actually HEAL myself ontop of all that) Would this REAAALLY make the pvp aspect of this server more fair? I mean, just imagine having bell, bramble, SoV and worst of all SoS on a force like that... What kind of effect would that have on the server if it became filled with people like that?

Is that really fair? Sure you could get def shards on your character too, but that doesnt mean you will hit harder, it will only mean you can survive better which doesnt help if you cant actually KILL your enemy because thier def lvl is too high. And if you think that SEEKER thing is bad, try putting that on an r8 deflvl bm who's buffed up the whazoo (and pls dont ask wtf a whazoo is  xD). You may argue that you can put in atk stones, i mean, that would cancel out the changes right? Well that COULD work, except that they only have 50% the boost of atk lvl so it STILL wouldnt balence out. So even then you would need an r8 atk lvl wep+atk stones, OR an outragous gank to bring someone like that down. If your point is to make it so that dragon gears can be imbued to match r8, then you fail to realize the reverse is true. If you're in dragon gear getting 1shot by r8 wizzies, give their r8 atk lvls, and they can 1shot you without debuffing or sparking. Psys, seekers, and yes even bms (a very overlooked class) are already a bitch to kill, mainly because psys stun or silence you b4 you can quid them, and seekers can quid any debuff you use to try and breach their defences. Bms have absurd defences, stunlocks, and a WIDE variety of debuffs in addition to a naturual affinity for high aps. Wizzies, archers and sins have absurd killing power when given atk lvls, which is why many sins role sage. Give either of them atk lvl stones and they would probably be the only things able to kill psys and seekers.

Classes like mystic, cleric, veno, and barb are currently able to hold their own against the forementioned classes, but they still have a hard time. In fact, most barbs cant kill without using arma, and clerics are forced to use HA to survive more better in pvp. Venos are an amazing class that are capable of being deadly in pvp, and are now used for little more than purging. That is when there are no archers around. And mystics, which are an outstanding (if somewhat an unfair and infuriating) class that excell at support, debuffs, sabatauge, etc, have been all but forgotten due to the difficulty lvling in pv and the constant rejections in gv preventing them from reaching their full potential. If these stones were added, these classes would all but die out, and TW would be dead for barbs. Because they are usualy vit build, def lvl stones would be out of the question, and an r8 atk lv wizz w/ atk imbues would spark/debuff those kitties and drop them in seconds. And i could go on as for why this change would kill the other classes as well.

IN SHORT: this server is fine just as it is. Maybe a few minor tweaks wouldnt hurt, but a MASSIVE change like adding those stones would make this server no different from all the other copycat games that dont try to fix the many mistakes that pwi made. Do we really want this game to become a copy of another failed game? That is why epic is so popular. WE ARE DIFFERENT. We dont follow the same mainstream design that other servers do. We dont have alot of frills or unique content, but what we DO provide are changes that make this game a player friendly environment that is fair for all. Its still a work in progress and the gms are also working on an instance revamp (been doing it a while now in fact) and they have alot on their plate.

I know this post has been long, but i think it needs to be. I understand the desire to have those stones to make things more fair for the undergeared, but i think many people fail to realize the many disasterous consequences of making this sort of change. I think the most important points to realize are this: It will completely change the game. It doesnt matter if someone can get the same shards, if it makes one class unkillable. It would destroy the validity (idc if its a real word or not i luv the way it sounds lol. If this is my one mistake in this post than i can live with that.  ;P) of numerous classes. And lastly, it would compliment the unbalence of the r8 patch, destroying the game. If there was ever a single patch that we could make that could destroy all the work that the GMs put into balencing the game, THIS is it. I know the gms wont even consider this, so im not trying to convince them or anyone else of anything. The reason of this post is to explain WHY they arent on this server.

Lastly, if you want to know how to talk more on this subject with me, pls send me a message to my profile, and i'll tell you how to contact me. I wont be on for a few days because i'm organizing my room, an extensive project 3 years overdue. But once i'm back, i'll contact you and we can discuss more on this later. And refering to negative replies to this post, KEEP IT CONSTRUCTIVE kay? I can take critism, but i WILL ignore flames. If your reply is hateful, the most you'll get from me is a "stfu dont be a hater" and then i'll move on. If you can poke holes in my post, go for it. I have more reasons, i just left most out so my post wouldnt go on forever. Luv y'all and happy new year to mah peeps and the rest of you smexy peoplez out there!!  ^.^