Good vs. Evil (since EPW's dead) :<

[ⓅⓇⓈ]

Specifically for those that know the classes in question, which path is best for each class, and please post your reasoning, pros/cons, etc.

I inquire about some of the classes I'd like to level a character in...

Sage or Demon (here on EPW, for purposes of pve, pvp, tw):

Seeker

Wiz'

Archer

Blademaster

Barb'

'Sin

Thanks in advance for any/all thoughts, input, feedback, etc. 

[beardragon]

What I do when choosing between Sage and Demon is that I take a look at the skills and see what the added effects of the skills are.

[Sleip]

What I do when choosing between Sage and Demon is that I take a look at the skills and see what the added effects of the skills are.

Thats not what he asked, he asked for personal opinions.

Ill tell you about the ones i have played.

Sin: Sage because it grants you overall more damage both to skill and APS. Sage Bloodpaint, Tidal, Chill, Dagger mastery, Earthen rift, Subsea strike, and many others are waaay better. And if aps is your thing, sage can get 4 aps base easily and 5.0 with a cheap genie skill.

Archer: Demon because i like APS and demon quickshot gives you A LOT of aps, barrage of arrows is also better for both pve and pvp purposes. Base damage is a little lower though.

Blademaster: Demon. Since a BM relies on stuns and burst dmg to kill, demon is better, all stuns are better and heaven flame is godly. The marrows are much better suited for pvp. Again, being demon gives a little les base damage.

[jpmitri]

Seeker  (sage) beter dmg there fore the skill combo hits harder and the speed skill gives imune to stun wich unlike most ppl think saved my ass alot in pvp

Wiz' i would go sage for the dmg and you get stun from your dragonbreath aoe wich can help in pve and aoe silence helps alot in mass pk

Archer i went sage on my archer and rarle lost to demon archers on another server sage hits harder wen you are not apsing sage archer skils give chi fairle fast and you get a longer time for the stun skill + take less dmg wen in barage and it reduces hp by 20% wich is 4 % more then demon so on a private server alot less hp to go throu

Blademaster i went sage for more dmg whis aoes and the sage bell is op but i found demon beter for mass pk do to the stuns and beter marows whis the longer lasting dg

Barb' i went sage for the extra hp and dmg in humem forme i am the type that likes to take fenominal dmg and keep asking for more so for pvp sage suts me best but if you like to hit hard and be abl to take on 2-3 players whis out having to go humen then go demon

'Sin sage is the best for sin more dmg and for the aps you can get the same whis a geni skill or som pots the dmg difrence is what keeps the agro in pve and what bypasses the charms in pvp you need to hit hard to live on a sin so demon isnt what i would call pvp material sage would be best for pvp and pve for that class

[Deathtome]

Sage or Demon (here on EPW, for purposes of pve, pvp, tw): Sage/Demon has always been about what skills do what for me, and what im going to be doing with that character, all the following would be in my opinions.

Seeker: usually choose sage- for the beginner skill to be ranged, and the anti stun sprint, plus higher damage and def lvl from the self buff, and honestly dont know of any cons for it.

Wiz': for pvp, definately demon.. hands down almost every time. the main and only reasons for this. is the earth self buff, raises your phys def. considerably higher then sage does. as a downside tho, your losing a bit of damage that the sage masters get.

Archer: ive actually been looking into these lately... in the past, ive always gone with demon, they're freeze skill gets like a 50% chance to stun for x amount of time, you get a certain % with the quick strike to increase attack speed, the self buffs are slightly better, you always get 50% more eva. and 20% speed (i believe those are the numbers) and with blazing arrow, you get a 70% bonus for x amount of time, then it reverts back down to 50 (i believe) but.. on the sage side of things, sage gets alot more chances to earn chi extremely quick, wingspan for example, gives a 20% chance to gain 100 chi.. and the skill has a fairly short CD time, if your grinding, and pull large groups, it definately would come in handy. self buffs also last longer for sage, instead of rebuffing every 10-15 min, they're hour long buffs (for blazing arrow)

Blademaster: this.. this is tricky, ive been a bm for 4 years now, starting on harshlands-pwi, then on vendetta, and now here, and for most of that time, ive been a sage bm, bm's lately have always been seen as more of a support class, due to HF and stuns, which i admit are the downsides to sage, demon has it beat considerably, sage HF gets a fire damage add-on, while demon version lasts 3 seconds longer, and for RoP (stun) demon version will never miss, as long as there isnt an anti stun sprint on (dont know if sin's TP has any change on it or not, i recently went demon, and havnt pvped all too much yet)

Barb': most the time, depends if you want more hp, or more attack, sage gives more hp, and even tho has a higher % mastery skill, demon's attack buff helps quite a bit more (and also adds a % crit rate if i remember right)

'Sin: both sides of sin work great for both pve, and pvp, Sage sins get a higher att lvl out of CoD, and higher damage mastery, along with a higher % to dodge negative status's with TP, while demon sins CoD, you get a higher att speed (only reduces att speed by like 70% if im right.. instead of 100) so if your using aps/AoE's you wont be attacking at .91 aps, demon version's also get a bonus to deep sting, which has a 95% chance to sleep, over sages. honestly, depends on HOW you play the class, i'd suggest looking into all the skills, probably take notes, and before choosing a side, go out and farm for a few hours, and go and pvp for a while, see how you play, which skills you'd prefer, and go about it that way, sin i believe is fairly balanced sage/demon wise.

i hope some of my insight helps a little bit

[Apollo]

Although there are no best paths as in Sage/ Demon for any class, there are certainly preferred class paths.
It mostly depends on your play-style, and as 'beardragon' said, just take a look at the Sage/ Demon skills of each class.

Personally, I prefer Sage Assassins and Demon Wizards. (I went Sage for my seeker, demon for my archer, demon for blademaster, and demon for barb~ not entirely sure about these choices, though)

Sage Assassins- Good Assassins really don't need to APS. And the R8R that was added as end-game gears in this server definitely makes me lean further towards Sage Assassins. If you have the right stats on your R8/ Dragon gear combination, you can be 2.86 with GoF daggers/ 4.0 with [Dragon's End]. I believe you can even be 3.33 base APS with GoF also, but I'm not entirely sure on that. Anyways, the sage skills for assassins are pretty damn good, in my opinion. While demons do have longer stuns, sage gives more tankability, which is much needed for those squishy sins. And for PvEing purposes? Sage does just as well as demon. Yeah, Demon Assassins can take down FC bosses in a few seconds flat...but so can a Sage Assassin. And if you are trying to pull some mobs to their doom, Sage BP never lets you down. Who doesn't love a 5% absorb instead of 2%? And obviously, I'm sure you've heard about Sage Tidal Protection? That can be an incentive too while PvPing. I just find Sage Assassins better at end-game, which is mainly just PvP. While PvPing, R8R Sage Assassins are notorious for their DpH, which can be 7-10k with crits/ zerk, which is pretty often for an assassin, of course.

Demon Wizard- I don't play my wiz much, but I think that wizards could use better channeling, even with the great and balanced gear this server has and hence, the demon spark can be vital. I also think that sage has better damage, but I've heard this extra damage is practically void while PvPing. I've checked out a few demon/ sage Wizard skills, and it seems that most of the demon skills are great. That's all I know about that.

Demon Archer- I just like Demon Archers for some reason or the other. x.x Yes, sage gives 2 extra meters for your attack range and many people love those Sage skills, but the Demon path has some up's of its own also, the most obvious being APS. Apparently, Sage Archers have better damage, but I've found this isn't entirely true. Let's say you lose 500 damage per hit? Well, this is an exchange for faster APS, hence faster chi, which gives you more chances to use your wonderful metal damage combo's. Idk.

Again, I suggest you check that whatever I have said aren't lies. e.e

Anyways, just some thoughts.

[ⓅⓇⓈ]

i do the same thing, beardragon...  i've been playing pw a good while now, i just haven't played some of the classes yet or enough (like some of the ones i listed above).  (ecatomb used to have a section of all of the sage/demon skills listed together for easy comparison, but it seems they got rid of that section, unfortunately.)


so to clarify, Sleip hit the nail on the head!  what he posted is exactly what i was looking for -- your own personal experiences with any of the given classes, whether Sage/Demon, or both.  and the pros & cons to each path, given pvp, pve/tw, etc.

i know many players that have played a class for years, and so i just wanted to tap into some of the collective experience here.

again, i kindly ask for your experience-based opinions on the above classes and whichever path you're familiar with, in the context of pvp/tw.


some of the things i'm curious about, where applicable: APS, damage, defense, survivability.

many thanks in advance for your thoughts and input!   

[Vengeous ~]

Sin - sage because lets be honest. Its bloody annoying when a stun fails cos of their tidal. And their damage is equal to a demon sin with condense on

Bm - demon obviously because of the stuns, marrows, bell, hf/dg.

Barb - demon for more aggression, sage for defense. Go demon

Seek - sage is better in everyway except percheblade. Other than that theres no other skill thats better in demon than in sage.

[Vengeous ~]

If i know a little bit about any class, itd be a sin. I went demon because of my stupidity and stubbornness. Obviously sage is better cos ive fought sage sins where ALL of my stuns/sleep failed because of sage tidal - 60% chance of evading negative status effects.... Massive slap in the face.
So im like oh okay, no tidals allowed. End result still comes down to the sage sin as the victor because of their high dps thanks to dagger devotion. Sage - 90% demon - 70% + 2-1% increase of crit....
Then again those are just numbers and im no where near pro, it pretty much comes down to the player.
Demon = aps/better stunlocks
Sage = dmg/survivability/aps with hybrid gear or cheap genies

[MrPresident]

Oh damn :sad:


Btw,how can i change from demon to sage?
I didnt yet finished my first culti,don't even have my first fairye.What should i do?
Can anyone help pls,ty!

[☠EvilTouch☠]

u will need to buy a Celestial Schism Mold from boutique or echange with Epic Coins.
You will need to finish all the culti quests though in order to use this item.

[MrPresident]

I need to go till demon 100 (celestial) or 89 (Void)? then change Sage?

[☠EvilTouch☠]

till celestial you can go through Fairy (item from boutique)
but to be able to switch u will need to finish all the cultivation quests.

[geriatrix]

For PvP I can't be sure. (I'm not PK-er.)

For PvE my own choices are:

Seeker - Sage. My reason is Vortex, +2m range, easier to reach mobs in GV and such.

BM - Sage. My reasons are passive skills. I like to have more dmg on each hit, not to
wait 1% crit more to hit harder. I already have, say, 35% crit, and 37 won't make much difference.

Barb - Sage. Very much similar reasons as for BM, plus more survivability with Barb's main purpose: tanking.

Sin - Sage. My main reasons were Sage BP (3% bloodsuck instead of 2), Rib Strike (10% reduction in max HP),
Wolf Emblem (keeps me buffed for 30 min).

As I said, those are my own reasons, because of my playstyle.

~~~~~

I have Sage BM with dual axes and dual blades, not claws, because blades
leave more stats for str for harder hits. And I like to switch to blades for
Myriad Sword Stance.

Right now I'm making another BM that is Claws based, using Light head and
wrists instead of Heavy and have 3.33aps base, and when Quicken stone in
claws activates it's 4 aps. I might make him Demon because of Demon Spark
that will give 5 aps (4 without Quicken). Just don't know if the spark stacks
with Genie skill to get even more than 5 aps... LOL

[geriatrix]

Oh damn :sad:


Btw,how can i change from demon to sage?
I didnt yet finished my first culti,don't even have my first fairye.What should i do?
Can anyone help pls,ty!

You have to finish all Demon culti quests (even if you bought 3rd fairy), including
3 last bosses in GV and those in Happy Valley.

After that take Shizm Mold and go to Conversion Executor. You will lose all Demon
skills (everything reverted to lvl 10). For Sage skills you will buy/make books again.

~~~~~

Another option is to make one more toon. It's not hard to lvl it in Epic.

That way you can try both and see which one is more fun for you to play.
Play one for several days, then move gear to another and try it the same way.