The vit cape requirement brought back into discussion

[Royal]

+1 

[๖ۣۜĐomgrath]

give cape back to sins, all classes have broken def already in def gears barely anyone playing sins in mass pk anymore anyway ty

-1
99% of sins aren't mass PK sins, therefore this would just be giving a class that can tank a party as-is even more defense. 

[Nea]

-1
99% of sins aren't mass PK sins, therefore this would just be giving a class that can tank a party as-is even more defense.

with 700 vit or 750 vit requirement
....?

[Jaye]

uhm... so barbs should be able to wear claws with 100 dex coz they shouldnt need to restat o.O
the stat requirement has its purpose, restricting different playstyles with diff builds.

thats for a weapon.. not a cape..
and truthfully.. do u think it is fair if someone is support and forced to allot their magic to vit to wear a cape and some dickish sin comes out and proceeds to attack them.. now.. they can tank them for a little while because they are support build but eventually they are going to either have to sz or die when they exhaust all their options because they have no option of attacking back..
there is no reason that anyone should be able to dictate someone elses playstyle. we have required stats already.. past that just leave it alone..

[๖ۣۜĐomgrath]

with 700 vit or 750 vit requirement
....?

No, I +1 your suggestion to bring the vit requirement into affect.

I -1 FMP trying to get cape given back to sins (without any requirements)

thats for a weapon.. not a cape..
and truthfully.. do u think it is fair if someone is support and forced to allot their magic to vit to wear a cape and some dickish sin comes out and proceeds to attack them.. now.. they can tank them for a little while because they are support build but eventually they are going to either have to sz or die when they exhaust all their options because they have no option of attacking back..
there is no reason that anyone should be able to dictate someone elses playstyle. we have required stats already.. past that just leave it alone..

Any logical non-DD cleric should be a vit build, or at least a vit-hybrid anyways. It gives extremely better survival chances also.

The opposition to this is the same as every other anti-defense camp thread. DD's thinking they should be able to deal massive damage and then still be able to tank an army.

If you don't agree with me, ask yourself this. Is it not true that certain players are virtually unkillable in mass PK unless 10 people are all AAing on them? The fact that one fully buffed assassin that uses macro-swap can tank an entire party and still manage to kill 3-4 people is beyond me. 

[Meese]

Why is there a need to limit any of it? Just leave stuff alone. Let people play how they want to play.. if u cant kill them easily then it should make it more of a challenge.. None of u are afraid of a challenge right? People who play support classes shouldnt be forced to only support and they shouldnt have to go restat in order to have the ability to fight back..

While I would agree with you under normal circumstances on some of your points, there currently needs to be a nerf in defensive power with all these third party applications being used. Since that cannot be removed completely, the only viable solution is to begin removing defensive options from people. A support character should be just that: support. They shouldn't be able to suddenly go on full offensive as it currently is. You have to sacrifice offensive power to gain defensive and vice versa. The other solution would be people not using third party applications at all, but obviously that wont happen because I hear its super fun and challenging gameplay. 

If same stat armors were endgame and everyone was on equal footing, then I would agree that nothing needs to be limited or changed. However, when people have the ability to build full tank and full attack gear sets and switch between the two with no real penalty or time lost, the gear gap becomes wide open. I built my character on one playstyle back when switching full gear sets in 1 sec was not popular in the least. I sacrificed my defensive options and stats on my character in order to do so. I could kill people faster but I could also go down faster if I wasn't careful; now if I had the funds to do so, I could also be a tank as well as full attack without any consequences unless I didn't pay attention to my surroundings at all. 

This wont solve the problems that the server has currently in terms of pvp, but its a step in the right direction. And at the end of the day, its 1 cape. God damn, didn't know people couldn't survive without it (hint: they most definitely can). 

[Jaye]

u srsly suffer of some disease but let me take it piece by piece for u, easier to understand
i am not against nerfing sins
id rip off 10-15 atk lvls atleast from their r8 set as i suggested be4 to aga but he cant do it w.o harming the 2.50 sins (which hit low on any HA/arcane that has def)
this is towards removing def camping on classes with high DD potential
just because u got nightmares with sins coming at u its not my problem
if u wanna use the cape u'd go with vit 700 or 750, which is just 150 mag loss
some of us sacrifice already alot of dex/mag/str by using 3 def orns or so in order to mass pk or rpk/ cards etc
id use the cape for mass pk myself and lose dmg (quite alot of it) for the sake of class max potential
and just a question
how will full mag build tank better than a build with some vit that actually gives pdef? u wanna deal alot of dmg ? squishy
u wanna tank? hit less.

See this is what u dont get Seby.. I dont even use the cape.. I am squishy as fk but i hit like a truck.. That is my decision to be squishy for that power tho.. The reason i am passionate about this is that you are effecting someone elses playstyle because you think it will balance something else out.. It wont.. There will always be someone that finds a way to be tankier or stronger than u want them to be.. why step on others by limiting their options because of a few tryhards?

[Neve]

See this is what u dont get Seby.. I dont even use the cape.. I am squishy as fk but i hit like a truck.. That is my decision to be squishy for that power tho.. The reason i am passionate about this is that you are effecting someone elses playstyle because you think it will balance something else out.. It wont.. There will always be someone that finds a way to be tankier or stronger than u want them to be.. why step on others by limiting their options because of a few tryhards?

Because restricting it from sins and wizards didn't effect some peoples playstyles?
Without even giving them a choice.
Lifting that restriction and giving it a vit requirement instead would allow them to choose. Just like anyone else would still be able to choose if they wanna sacrifice some damage for the def or not. It's not even a permanent choice... restatting takes what? 30 seconds?
I don`t think thats what he is even on about though. People been asking for ring restrictions and such for ages now, giving the cape a minimum vit requirement would be the least limiting thing i can think of.
Rings -  would be a pain due to engraves + off builds like heavy veno
Neck - again: engraves
Ofc there is always the option to just get rid of the cape or to restrict it to ep's and wb's only but.. how would that be fair? That would heavily benefit any DD ep / wb in 1v1s.
Or we can pretend all is fine.

[Lena]

why dont we just remove the cape completely lmao i honestly dont think any class needs it
and bms/eps/wfs honestly doesn't need it to tank
just my opinion

If vit tome was 6% rpd i would agree with this.

[MrPeppermint]

-1 

Issue is scripters changing lots of gear in a second. Since there are veno's running round like TJT with vit hybrid build still killing people. Just makes it harder for newer/less geared players to survive trolls/geared players.

[Snow]

Like Eve said, not everyone wants to play a support cleric 24/7. Maybe some just go support for mass pk, while they are otherwise DD,and going for a restat every mass pk is just...repulsive. 

Fixing def camps and what not is a process that always couses an action-reaction. you change something, and something else ***s up. 

And the cape wont cut it.

[ZuzuNull]

+1 i agree with Sebi

[ABBADON]

I generally do not agree with this post because there have been a lot of changes already, all due to this era of scripting and defense camp..
But I do understand that there are classes that simply gain way too much benefits from switching a few items without much of a penalty, only to be able to switch again for a relatively nice offense.
These classes being venomancers and mystics, as their roles and capabilities allow them to have the best of both defense and offense when r8 is at least decent. (I'm assuming that the people here debating do have decent or better armor to support or deny my claim.)
So if something must really be done..then I would say a small vit requirement to only venomancers and mystics.

Why not other classes that label themselves as support, you might ask? Let's take a look:
Clerics- Self explanatory in their class role defined on this server, however, some clerics do incorporate vit in their builds anyway. Regardless, there's a very small number of clerics that actually DD so we don't need to stress ourselves with that. The best DDing from an ep is done in violet dance as well, and switching isn't allowed in that form.

Barbs- Strength barbs get hiero'd unless they have incredibly fine r8 with rmdt and high defense levels, and to be a threat they would need an opposing set with high strength stats. (Only a few barbs have both of these, tuned so perfectly for this to be an issue.) Either way, barbs are not as serious and for them to lose 100-150 strength to go into vitality would actually help their loss, although 150 less strength would not prevent you from taking really ugly zerk-crit damage. *

Bms- Do you see what they go through in mass? ( lol ; DDD)
Okay but seriously, although I play dph wr here myself, aps is the most efficient way to kill someone. How many aps blademasters do you see? Do they survive well? 
Not many and not really. Full dragon is what's needed to be a bm that efficiently kills anything. With that being said, aps bms only come through during 1v1s,(private or playoffs), not anywhere else. Bms have primarily become pure support, giving them a vit requirement would just make them tankier in mass pk but ruin the private fun that players of this class may have left. *

*= I know restatting is available but come on, who wants to go through all of that work multiple times a day? So my points are with that not being factored.
My two cents...I'm aware I did not go into detail as to why venomancers and mystics must get the "short" end of the stick here but I think it's clear..this is long enough already.
 It's hard for posts like these to not be biased based on the class the poster uses most, I've tried my best to not make it seem so-but note that I honestly don't care if my most used class ends up getting the vit requirement placed upon it. 

[BriEsT]

Like Eve said, not everyone wants to play a support cleric 24/7. Maybe some just go support for mass pk, while they are otherwise DD,and going for a restat every mass pk is just...repulsive.

Fixing def camps and what not is a process that always couses an action-reaction. you change something, and something else ***s up.

And the cape wont cut it.

 To be fair none of the support classes aside of maybe barb needs this def cape and thats mostly if the barb is vit type . But it does help tho I wont deny that .

Totally.

More like stop trying to make our class completely defenseless to make your life easy.

 Im not sure what class you play but mystic , ep and wf is hardly defenseless . I hope I got at least one of them correct . And if you are playing mage well that class has alot of kiting ability which you can use to survive ( watch 1337 video ) . So I dont see how this 1 cape changes anything for "us arcanes"  lol . And lets be honest once more , rank 8 and engrave give you more then enough rpd to tank any sin you want .
OT : Perhaps just remove the cape and give the other one for free ; ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) . Seriously tho I dont think putting vit on it will help anything but +1 any small buff/nerd is good .

[Jinxers]

-1 (though I know that doesn't do much.)

I happen to like things how they are. No, I don't switch my cape around. It's a permanent thing. It was enough to take it from my farming sin.