Seeker and Dual Edges

[Vermilion]

Learn to read, its based on damage-output seeker already have.
You can deal more then enough damage to kill a wr using defence (r8) wep.
While the wr couldn't tick your charm if you are the one using a defence weap.
Same to ep, your damage to my ep is considerably high if you catch me without puri wep = I'm dead, so I don't see the need for more attack levels

I'm sorry Mr.SoG>Sleep>DDwithPuriWepOn, but I think that you're wrong, and let me tell you why, if you really wanted to target yourself as in an EP in your reply, then you have no idea what you are talking about, tell me please how many "disadvantages" an EP has over a Seeker, I'll wait for your reply quietly because I know you can't say anything legit about it

[D' Zen]

I really don't know much about what has happened in past with seekers. But yeah, as mentioned make dual edges restricted to seekers and add atk lvls maybe. Change to claws only does not make it fair!!!!!

[Ivan]

Don't think this is necessary considering that seekers have enough CC and disables for 1v1 already. They can use sacrificial slash in their aps combos for a short attack level boost (which is enough to aps someone to death once their immunes/defences are down). I guess this wouldn't be too bad or cause any big balance issues since most seekers are DPH and the dual edge is rarely used

[Mitochondria]

+1 to this suggestion. Seekers damage is currently fcked up. This was also the reason why i stopped playing the class after the Extreme stone got removed.

[Woda]

Before I give my opinion, I would like to know exactly how u tested ur dmg vs barbs. You noted that u tested on a barb using dragon armor and a defense lvl weapon. What about your own gear (Were u in atk set or defense set) Also, what gear was this barb using when he did 4-5-6k on ur full defense set?

This is a relevant question as at some point 1v1ing becomes more of a chess game of switching gears at the right time. I remember tanking you when I was in full defense gear, and getting heiro'd by u without any buff-ups at other times because I was in my normal set of gear.

I can't kill barbs at all (not even with sage spark) if they're in defense gear, same for seekers and some bms. This comes at the cost of them doing virtually no dmg on me either. You just have to be patient and try to figure out when ur opponent switches to atk gear so u can counter effectively.

While I am pretty sure u know all this, I can't help but wonder how u tested the dmg before I +1 or -1 this. Show me this is really broken instead of poor timing and I'll gladly support u on this.

[scatterer3]

Before I give my opinion, I would like to know exactly how u tested ur dmg vs barbs. You noted that u tested on a barb using dragon armor and a defense lvl weapon. What about your own gear (Were u in atk set or defense set) Also, what gear was this barb using when he did 4-5-6k on ur full defense set?

This is a relevant question as at some point 1v1ing becomes more of a chess game of switching gears at the right time. I remember tanking you when I was in full defense gear, and getting heiro'd by u without any buff-ups at other times because I was in my normal set of gear.

I can't kill barbs at all (not even with sage spark) if they're in defense gear, same for seekers and some bms. This comes at the cost of them doing virtually no dmg on me either. You just have to be patient and try to figure out when ur opponent switches to atk gear so u can counter effectively.

While I am pretty sure u know all this, I can't help but wonder how u tested the dmg before I +1 or -1 this. Show me this is really broken instead of poor timing and I'll gladly support u on this.

I can vouch on this. We can try it out in game if you want a concrete example.

[Dom]

As a barb, if fighting a decent seeker I will lose 60% of the time. You say that you do low damage on barbs, I can't see how this is accurate. I'm currently 4.0 base w/ triple interval R8 Bracers, with full Dragon for maximum APS, a 3 Row Def. Level weapon and 5% Physical DMG reduction, Attack cards, ect. Needless to say, I'm squishy. As 4.0 base (as opposed to being 3.33 base in full dragon) I'm actually losing 300-400 Mdef overall and pretty damn squishy.

Assuming that the seeker is using APS, full attack,  ect. Uses sac. slash and a wood pot, I'm going to  be hit for 2k + at 3.33/4.0 APS (Not even x3 sparked). Which HURTS. Not to even mention that they can easily disarm me and those defense levels I have are useless, or occasionally use metal damage.

I'd like to see +attack levels on Dual Edges too though, so +1

I could use more damage 

[Mitochondria]

As a barb, if fighting a decent seeker I will lose 60% of the time. You say that you do low damage on barbs, I can't see how this is accurate. I'm currently 4.0 base w/ triple interval R8 Bracers, with full Dragon for maximum APS, a 3 Row Def. Level weapon and 5% Physical DMG reduction, Attack cards, ect. Needless to say, I'm squishy. As 4.0 base (as opposed to being 3.33 base in full dragon) I'm actually losing 300-400 Mdef overall and pretty damn squishy.

Assuming that the seeker is using APS, full attack,  ect. Uses sac. slash and a wood pot, I'm going to  be hit for 2k + at 3.33/4.0 APS (Not even x3 sparked). Which HURTS. Not to even mention that they can easily disarm me and those defense levels I have are useless, or occasionally use metal damage.

I'd like to see +attack levels on Dual Edges too though, so +1

I could use more damage 

Seekers are 2.86 in Ha/la - Dragon and 3.33 with 3x int then goes 4.00 if they use quicken shards.
And imo wb can tank seeker's aps if they go sit in tiger. Which is what most wb do when seekers use SS- QPQ - APS.

[Dom]

Seekers are 2.86 in Ha/la - Dragon and 3.33 with 3x int then goes 4.00 if they use quicken shards.
And imo wb can tank seeker's aps if they go sit in tiger. Which is what most wb do when seekers use SS- QPQ - APS.

I assume all seekers are 3.33 because of the Quicken Stone. I said a decent seeker because most are bad, and an above average seeker can keep someone locked easily before having the chance to go into tiger form. Assuming the barb's genie is wasted.

[Vermilion]

Before I give my opinion, I would like to know exactly how u tested ur dmg vs barbs. You noted that u tested on a barb using dragon armor and a defense lvl weapon. What about your own gear (Were u in atk set or defense set) Also, what gear was this barb using when he did 4-5-6k on ur full defense set?

This is a relevant question as at some point 1v1ing becomes more of a chess game of switching gears at the right time. I remember tanking you when I was in full defense gear, and getting heiro'd by u without any buff-ups at other times because I was in my normal set of gear.

I can't kill barbs at all (not even with sage spark) if they're in defense gear, same for seekers and some bms. This comes at the cost of them doing virtually no dmg on me either. You just have to be patient and try to figure out when ur opponent switches to atk gear so u can counter effectively.

While I am pretty sure u know all this, I can't help but wonder how u tested the dmg before I +1 or -1 this. Show me this is really broken instead of poor timing and I'll gladly support u on this.

As I said on a previous reply, this thread isn't targeted to WB's, but when I encountered that, the barb was in full dragon, with Def pole hammer on, I was in full dragon with dual edges while dealing 1k's, then in the next second after my lock ran out without any real result (basically couldn't kill, even with sacri slash), switched to full r8 with Def sword, vit cape and nw tome, and got hit for about 5-6k's per hit just by being apsed on with claws.
And as you remember the last time we 1v1'ed, I couldn't kill you either when you were using Def gears, not even with the combo.

[Vermilion]

As a barb, if fighting a decent seeker I will lose 60% of the time. You say that you do low damage on barbs, I can't see how this is accurate. I'm currently 4.0 base w/ triple interval R8 Bracers, with full Dragon for maximum APS, a 3 Row Def. Level weapon and 5% Physical DMG reduction, Attack cards, ect. Needless to say, I'm squishy. As 4.0 base (as opposed to being 3.33 base in full dragon) I'm actually losing 300-400 Mdef overall and pretty damn squishy.

Assuming that the seeker is using APS, full attack,  ect. Uses sac. slash and a wood pot, I'm going to  be hit for 2k + at 3.33/4.0 APS (Not even x3 sparked). Which HURTS. Not to even mention that they can easily disarm me and those defense levels I have are useless, or occasionally use metal damage.

I'd like to see +attack levels on Dual Edges too though, so +1

I could use more damage 

WB's can tank seekers easily, even with the infamous blur combo, just hit solid shield, because even though it won't reduce the blur damage, it will reduce the damage of the aps. You basically got 1 button to switch to Tiger, and laugh in my face while I try to kill you, not to mention invoke. You're pretty well covered on the offensive side too, having  a knockdown which can't be dodged, full chi pretty much all the time, resulting in 3 sparks on 30 sec intervals, so I wouldn't complain. And even if this will ever be done, I don't think anyone would be "smart" enough to make the new dual edges usable by WB's.

[Vermilion]

Also I require a GM to clean up the unnecessary replies made by the "smart"  people which own a computer and have too much time on their hands.  Thank you

[Ivan]

WB's can tank seekers easily, even with the infamous blur combo, just hit solid shield, because even though it won't reduce the blur damage, it will reduce the damage of the aps. You basically got 1 button to switch to Tiger, and laugh in my face while I try to kill you, not to mention invoke. You're pretty well covered on the offensive side too, having  a knockdown which can't be dodged, full chi pretty much all the time, resulting in 3 sparks on 30 sec intervals, so I wouldn't complain. And even if this will ever be done, I don't think anyone would be "smart" enough to make the new dual edges usable by WB's.

Since you've listed all those things, why would you think that 5 attack levels would make a huge difference? 1v1 with seekers/wbs/wrs in most cases isn't about stats or gear, but timing and gear switching. A decent seeker can always beat a decent barb/wr and the other way around with the current stats and I really don't think you will notice a big difference if it ever comes to changing the vit to attack levels. I'm not against it, I also play a seeker for 1v1 occasionally but bottom line, things are just fine the way they are

[Vermilion]

Don't think this is necessary considering that seekers have enough CC and disables for 1v1 already. They can use sacrificial slash in their aps combos for a short attack level boost (which is enough to aps someone to death once their immunes/defences are down). I guess this wouldn't be too bad or cause any big balance issues since most seekers are DPH and the dual edge is rarely used

Not every seeker in here is DPH, as a matter of fact, as a DPH seeker you won't get anywhere in here, talking from my personal experience. And to be honest, when you have 1 reliable 3 sec stun and another one which can miss anytime, and it will miss one time or another, can't really say that a seeker has large amounts of CC, that's why we are forced to use occult genies, hence have low genie energy for survival type skills.

[Vermilion]

Since you've listed all those things, why would you think that 5 attack levels would make a huge difference? 1v1 with seekers/wbs/wrs in most cases isn't about stats or gear, but timing and gear switching. A decent seeker can always beat a decent barb/wr and the other way around with the current stats and I really don't think you will notice a big difference if it ever comes to changing the vit to attack levels. I'm not against it, I also play a seeker for 1v1 occasionally but bottom line, things are just fine the way they are

The way I see it, yes when you talk about wr vs seeker, totally doable, all about timing your sparks to dodge stuns and simply tricking your opponent. But vs WB's, can't really kill them anymore, especially the 3 spark occult type, can't really do anything about that, not enough damage to take them down, while they just need to switch 1 weapon to laugh in my face while I try to kill them. And then just 3 spark and occult the knockdown when my genie is burnt down while I was trying to go for the kill, you basically go down in 2 seconds and can't do anything about it.