Epic Perfect World

WTF is the deal with bows

Offline geriatrix

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Sins hitting harder than archers with an archers own weapon, archers having MASTERY over that weapon, is considered OP.
...
You can still use the 140 bow, it still hits harder than an archer using fists.
You have some interesting comparisons. :)
"Veno hits weaker with Polehammer than Barb with Magic Sword. So Barb is OP."

But forget all that.

Real question and most important thing is:

Does Sin "hit harder" with bow than with daggers?
That is the ONLY relevant question (and motivation for Sin to use dags).

If not, then the "OP" QQ was about purge, NOT about "hard hit".
And that hasn't been solved, only masked.

If yes, THEN this was right way to go.

~~~~~

BTW, when I make Archer I don't plan to use fists at all.
Too much points from Dex to Str, and not enough Str to hit hard enough.

I also don't want Soulspheres on my Mystic.
I might kill some noob Psy with that and get nerfed after his QQ.
"Don't think about winning every battle in your life.
Think only about winning the current one."

But reconsider price. You might decide to lose.

Offline yablonsky

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Archer is 5,0 with fist, for sin 5,0 only reachable with heavy/light eq combo for that u need restart a lot from dex to str. but aslong sin still hit a lot more with dager by  4,0 then archer with 5,0 fist all ok. even with atk/dev pouch on tham (what for me still not realy fair that the got it)

Offline Feone

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You have some interesting comparisons. :)
"Veno hits weaker with Polehammer than Barb with Magic Sword. So Barb is OP."

But forget all that.

Real question and most important thing is:

Does Sin "hit harder" with bow than with daggers?
That is the ONLY relevant question (and motivation for Sin to use dags).

If not, then the "OP" QQ was about purge, NOT about "hard hit".
And that hasn't been solved, only masked.



Your comparison is off. If it was the same type ninja used it would have been veno hitting harder with a polehammer than a barb. Since ninja is comparing bow as a sins SECONDARY weapon damage with an archers PRIMARY where the sin's secondary would be the harder hitting one. Not to mention you completely ignore the sin not having to restat anything to use bows at full damage, fist archers lose dex compared to pure ranged ones.
Another point you're forgetting is that by using a bow sins gain about 15-18m range which can be quite usefull. Sin being a melee class they shouldn't outdmg archers at range.

Offline xDelete

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Ik it's in wrong section, but the 5% nerfing isnt 5%...I hit 40% less in pve :)

Offline geriatrix

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Your comparison is off. If it was the same type ninja used it would have been veno hitting harder with a polehammer than a barb. Since ninja is comparing bow as a sins SECONDARY weapon damage with an archers PRIMARY where the sin's secondary would be the harder hitting one. Not to mention you completely ignore the sin not having to restat anything to use bows at full damage, fist archers lose dex compared to pure ranged ones.
Another point you're forgetting is that by using a bow sins gain about 15-18m range which can be quite usefull. Sin being a melee class they shouldn't outdmg archers at range.

SECONDARY is the right word. That post was comparing "bowed" Sin with "fisted" Archer.
(Sorry about naughty conotations.)

That's why my question was "Was Sin hitting harder with daggers or with bow?"

About "outranging" Archer, you are right. But I think Archer can reach further than 15-18m.
Cleric's non-fairy skills can reach 26.5m (non-Sage/Demon).
"Don't think about winning every battle in your life.
Think only about winning the current one."

But reconsider price. You might decide to lose.

Offline Lyssania

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Logged on and looked at my bow and went WTF?! Thanks for the patch notes to this!

Offline Feone

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You are still missing the point ger. Sins already have the highest DPS ingame as well as an array of stuns on their dagger. They do not need a massive damage secondary weapon that can outhit a class which uses said weapon as primary.

Offline Bowydude

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Archer is 5,0 with fist, for sin 5,0 only reachable with heavy/light eq combo for that u need restart a lot from dex to str. but aslong sin still hit a lot more with dager by  4,0 then archer with 5,0 fist all ok. even with atk/dev pouch on tham (what for me still not realy fair that the got it)
archer damage with fists is MAX 2k on a sin IN SPARK, whereas sin can hits like 6-7k on an archer in spark.
fists are not op, and decrease your bow damage by alot.
You Better Be Scared...

Offline geriatrix

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You are still missing the point ger. Sins already have the highest DPS ingame as well as an array of stuns on their dagger. They do not need a massive damage secondary weapon that can outhit a class which uses said weapon as primary.
Yes, I do miss your point, because the subject point seems more important to me.
"Fisted" Archer will hit lower with bow because they reduce Dex in favor of Fist Str requirements.
Sins don't force them to do it.

But bow lvl 140 might be enough for Sin to do those PvE tasks.

Ok, you win. :)
"Don't think about winning every battle in your life.
Think only about winning the current one."

But reconsider price. You might decide to lose.

Offline columbine

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But bow lvl 140 might be enough for Sin to do those PvE tasks.

My 149 sin's 130 bow kills heads and Harpies just fine, thank you.  But he's strictly PVE in any case so that's all he's used it for.
Sin, Cleric, Psy, Seeker, Barb, Mystic, Wiz, Archer, Veno...I likes 'em all

Offline pyrogod2207

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ppl complain about bows. cause most sins used them to:

De-buff

Or hit totally harder then an EA..

More QQQQQQQQQ 

Offline XxHYFUxX

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I have never used the bow in PVP i just use it to farm lower lvl items like Heavens tears and in FC it just kinda pissed me off that no one ever said anything before hand or at least nothing i had read or heard or But whatever what is done is done I also feel as some one else said it is more like 40% we were nerfed as sins but what ever not like the player really have a say in it we just go long with what ever...... and Really just need to stop QQ about things because it is not going to change any thing BTW I do want to Thank Everyone for there Comments and the info and opinions..... 
Demon 5.0aps Pro Sin 150 MuffDiver
Demon LA Cleric 150 LongDong
Demon Seeker 150 SoFaKing

Offline Ninja

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Removing 150/145 bow for sins has been talked about for ages, it was on the nerf thread.
Ex-GM

Thanks Syringe for the pic & JuJuBeez for the awesome sig!

Offline GoldenArrow

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Removing 150/145 bows for sins...? I use gold to buy that bow. Now is useless.

Why don't remove claws/ punch from barbs and archer.
dagger only for Sins
claws/ punch only for BM
Bows only for archers
ect.  >:(

Offline Ninja

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An archer with fists hits about 1/2 that of a bm, who hits about half that of an assassin with daggers.

A sin with a bow hit roughly 1.2x higher than an archer.

So that is why archers can use fists.
Ex-GM

Thanks Syringe for the pic & JuJuBeez for the awesome sig!