Epic Perfect World

Gank Theory

Offline Auroma

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If you read World Chat or forums, you would easily see people shouting "OMFG GANK GANK!!!!!!"
And the most accused guild (Faction) on ganks is Xpendable. Now if you are one of those people who like to cry "Gank Gank" and bash Xpendable on World Chat, I would like you to answer the following questions. If you cannot answer then don't even bother to post here.

Q1. How is it possible for a single guild to "Gank" when whole server is allied against them? There is TeamPH, NoHomo, UnderOath, Legendz and many other guilds who are all allies and kill, or at least try to kill any Xpendable on sight. Xpendable has at max around 20 to 30 active members (taking out alts and people who don't play), which is much lower than many other guilds. Our server has over 9000 votes on Gtop 100, you can guess the number of players on our server (and at least 25 to 40% people PK) from that number based on how many times a person can vote, and probably how many people vote from alt accounts if possible.

Q2. Have you ever seen Xpendable being ganked? If there is a fight between 1 guild vs Whole server, who has a higher chance of getting ganked? Even if not all guilds who pk fight together all the time, all allied guilds will always have more numbers than Xpendable.

Q3. Does your guild helps you when you are getting Ganked? In Xpendable, when a member is getting ganked he/she can ask for help and most of the time he/she will get help. Is your guild also like that? Or you are not helped and are only left with World Chat to vent out your frustration or hatred? How many friends you have in your guild, friends on whom you can depend on?

Q4. How many of your guild mates who PK as team players? How many of your guild mates are skilled players and how many are still learning their class (an estimate?)

Q5. How seriously you take this game? How many hours of your real life time you spend playing it. What would cause you more pain, you failing an important test in school/college/univ or your account getting hacked?

Q6. Do you Gank? And at the same time expect yourself to be treated differently?

Q7. Would you fly/walk into a PK Guild which does not makes any ally in a PK zone with your character's PK mode enabled expecting to have some nice chit chat or telling them how cool you are?

Q8. Is Life fair? Who do innocent and sometimes intelligent people have to suffer due to ignorance of the masses, greed of the bankers/other human beings, corruption of the governments, inherent stupidity of human beings, why are Capitalists are allowed to privatize profit but socialize losses? There are so many other scenario which can be provided.

“Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power.”

Offline Tinykiller

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Offline DrakeX

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Lol, when i read the title i expected something different, but that is great!
I hope with this post people will realise how stupid their QQ is.
Couldnt have asked is better.

QQers, think about those words!

Offline Ninja

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This is very good.

It is bias towards the xpendables (everyone is going to be bias), and (depending where you come from) very anti-establishment, but the points are good. If it came from an independant, unbias point of view (nearly impossible), I would definately direct people here.

Capitalism focuses on rewarding income for work toward the society, the more a person contributes, the wealthier they are. No system is perfect, but going around bashing them is pointless, especially in a game where people come to escape the world.
Ex-GM

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Offline Auroma

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This is very good.

It is bias towards the xpendables (everyone is going to be bias), and (depending where you come from) very anti-establishment, but the points are good. If it came from an independant, unbias point of view (nearly impossible), I would definately direct people here.

Capitalism focuses on rewarding income for work toward the society, the more a person contributes, the wealthier they are. No system is perfect, but going around bashing them is pointless, especially in a game where people come to escape the world.

I have a reply for this Ninjas, but since you have GM powers and can Ban as you please so I wont reply.
Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:00 am by XtrM
“Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power.”

Offline AlicE

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Some of what you said is true, but the problem is not in ganking. The problem is that Xpendables never want to fight 1v1 or 2v2. You said how honorable you are and help each other when someone gets ganked and that the whole world against you blah blah... But when someone comes and asks if someone wants a fair fight, you just jump on him/her all together. Don't blame it on others, that the whole server is against you. The server hates Xpendables because of what they do, and you should've expected that to happen when you started to play it dirty. It is funny though, that you talk about how "in reality, the Xpendables are the ones being ganked", yet in 80% of the time when I come to see what's at west PK, there are like 5-10 Xpendbales there and 2-3 other random people. The thing is, that most other guilds can't just make a "quick pk squad" of 10 people and go fight you 10v10. Most guilds contain mostly pve players, and if there are 20-30 people online, then unlike Xpendable, where 15 of those are pk players, in other guilds only 2-3 might be. And of course you just stay near the entrance and whenever someone steps outside the "safe zone", you stun them and kill. So stop talking BS about who should do what. There are facts. If you had the honor you claiming to have here, you would gank whoever ganks you and 1v1 with regular people. Let's just tell the truth - you love ganking others. So stop pretending you're not and writing all kinds of beautiful lines about Capitalism and the like. We can turn into psychology and look at groups of teenagers at the streets, or into zoology and see the same behavior when Hyenas attack Lions. It is natural... to animals and uneducated teenagers. Perhaps you just can't resist it and rely on the same instincts in game. Well, good luck killing noobs then, because all serious people find private spots to do normal pvp fights, where skill matters, not the the difference in the amount of players.

P.S.
And no, I am not complaining about this ganking. I almost stopped attending west pk for some time now, because it's pointless when Xpendable are around. I do find some nice people to pvp at other places, who become my friends even though we fight. Ironic, isn't it? Xpendables would never understand how that could be possible.

ruse

It is bias towards the xpendables (everyone is going to be bias), and (depending where you come from) very anti-establishment, but the points are good. If it came from an independant, unbias point of view (nearly impossible), I would definately direct people here.

Quote from: Ninja
"Recoil, Xpendables seem to like to cause drama/trouble/stir people up, this is why people don't like them."

Ironic that you talk about bias when you as a GM say things like that about something you shouldn't even comment on to begin with. Little hypocritical, no?

The problem is that Xpendables never want to fight 1v1 or 2v2. You said how honorable you are and help each other when someone gets ganked and that the whole world against you blah blah... But when someone comes and asks if someone wants a fair fight, you just jump on him/her all together. Don't blame it on others, that the whole server is against you. The server hates Xpendables because of what they do, and you should've expected that to happen when you started to play it dirty. It is funny though, that you talk about how "in reality, the Xpendables are the ones being ganked", yet in 80% of the time when I come to see what's at west PK, there are like 5-10 Xpendbales there and 2-3 other random people. The thing is, that most other guilds can't just make a "quick pk squad" of 10 people and go fight you 10v10. Most guilds contain mostly pve players, and if there are 20-30 people online, then unlike Xpendable, where 15 of those are pk players, in other guilds only 2-3 might be. And of course you just stay near the entrance and whenever someone steps outside the "safe zone", you stun them and kill. So stop talking BS about who should do what. There are facts. If you had the honor you claiming to have here, you would gank whoever ganks you and 1v1 with regular people. Let's just tell the truth - you love ganking others. ...because all serious people find private spots to do normal pvp fights, where skill matters, not the the difference in the amount of players.

We have asked and offered for 3v3/6v6/10v10/whatever when we've both been outnumbered and outnumbered people. We get denied almost every single time. Funny though, pretty sure that during the past 2 3v3 events, Xpendable won. No ganks there.

 If you roll out into the middle of 10 people and expect a 1v1 without asking/requesting first when we're out there, that's just stupid. I don't go outside when there's 20 NoHomo/Carmesi around expecting to live. We don't have allies. Our 'safelist' consists of peoples alts that are in the guild. Ask around, there are several people who have hung out at West with us without getting ganked. We've made friends that way too. o: However, if Xpendable kills you at West and you want a 1v1, ask for a res and say that you're going to 1v1 ______, and people will leave you alone. We DO respect that. Why don't we let random people live most of the time? Because most of them randomly attack us. (y)

Yes, we are a PK guild. It's not our fault 'most guilds are full of PvE' people. If you don't want to get PKed, stay blue. Yes, if you come out into the middle of 10 people that you know don't have allies you are most likely going to die. No, we won't refuse 1v1 or 2v2 or whatever. If anyone ever wants a 'fair fight with skill and not numbers' with Xpendable all they have to do is ask. We're more than up for it. :> Keep assuming that we're all assholes though, please. I love it.
Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:40 am by Ruse

Offline Auroma

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Some of what you said is true, but the problem is not in ganking. The problem is that Xpendables never want to fight 1v1 or 2v2. You said how honorable you are and help each other when someone gets ganked and that the whole world against you blah blah... But when someone comes and asks if someone wants a fair fight, you just jump on him/her all together. Don't blame it on others, that the whole server is against you. The server hates Xpendables because of what they do, and you should've expected that to happen when you started to play it dirty. It is funny though, that you talk about how "in reality, the Xpendables are the ones being ganked", yet in 80% of the time when I come to see what's at west PK, there are like 5-10 Xpendbales there and 2-3 other random people. The thing is, that most other guilds can't just make a "quick pk squad" of 10 people and go fight you 10v10. Most guilds contain mostly pve players, and if there are 20-30 people online, then unlike Xpendable, where 15 of those are pk players, in other guilds only 2-3 might be. And of course you just stay near the entrance and whenever someone steps outside the "safe zone", you stun them and kill. So stop talking BS about who should do what. There are facts. If you had the honor you claiming to have here, you would gank whoever ganks you and 1v1 with regular people. Let's just tell the truth - you love ganking others. So stop pretending you're not and writing all kinds of beautiful lines about Capitalism and the like. We can turn into psychology and look at groups of teenagers at the streets, or into zoology and see the same behavior when Hyenas attack Lions. It is natural... to animals and uneducated teenagers. Perhaps you just can't resist it and rely on the same instincts in game. Well, good luck killing noobs then, because all serious people find private spots to do normal pvp fights, where skill matters, not the the difference in the amount of players.

P.S.
And no, I am not complaining about this ganking. I almost stopped attending west pk for some time now, because it's pointless when Xpendable are around. I do find some nice people to pvp at other places, who become my friends even though we fight. Ironic, isn't it? Xpendables would never understand how that could be possible.

1. AlicE who you want to 1v1 in Xpendable, post here and fight will be on.

2. 80% of the time you see 5-10 Xpendable and 2-3 other people then you must be spending like 5 mins from your whole day on West and rest in PVE, server has much more mass pk than that. And many guilds pk.

3. Talking about us relying on animal instincts,  killing noobs, and other "skilled" players fighting elsewhere, I can just say LOL

I have friends in your guild, help people when I can and make new friends.  It is very easy to make false assumptions about those you consider your "enemies".

Relax, it is just a game Alice.
Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:29 am by XtrM
“Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power.”

Offline Faeryl

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Wow. didn't think I would ever see the day where someone actually has the balls to speak the truth and not beat around the bush. If anyone has had the pleasure of knowing me, you know first hand I don't pick sides no matter the guild I am in, nor will I partake in the in the dishonorable player killer no matter the guild I am in. I am most generally very quite and listen, observe (should be a GM, hehe)and I never talk crap about another Guild in any chat or spill their deviant or pleasent secrets, therefore my opinion here is extremely valid I feel. I will also tell you the truth whether it hurts or not. I have sit for hours and watched the chat, and seen over and over how people degrade Xpendable to a point that it has now become SICK. I know many of the people in Xpendable going wayyyy back, and their game play is based on Honor, experience and knowledge of the game, as well as the dynamics of the building a character and using it beyond more than I have seen play PW. Ganking is most definitely grief playing and since I came back, Epic has fallen into the trap of unfair game play. You have players and top Guild puff themselves up, slap at their chest like an ape, and attack as though they are billy bad azz's, and then say oh wait let me call on 4 others and take this person out. That is NOT PvP or 1v1, which is how the game intended player fighting to be. It is called PK *player killing*, which is Griefing. Don't believe me take the time to do your research, most games now are putting a stop to it. I am also, disappointed in Agatio as I know the way Epic has become; nothing more than a place for bully's to call home is no where what he claimed himself to want, and also you mute or ban when they (Xpendable) bring help, you are doing nothing more than allowing the this crap to continue. I am going to give this server some good advice, Never Never underestimate a guild (Xpendable) who's foundation is based on Morals and Honor or you just might get bit in the butt.

Hugs,

Aimee

Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 10:23 am by Faeryl
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Offline Ste_

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Wow. didn't think I would ever see the day where someone actually has the balls to speak the truth and not beat around the bush. If anyone has had the pleasure of knowing me, you know first hand I don't pick sides no matter the guild I am in, nor will I partake in the in the dishonorable player killer no matter the guild I am in. I am most generally very quite and listen, observe (should be a GM, hehe)and I never talk crap about another Guild in any chat or spill their deviant or pleasent secrets, therefore my opinion here is extremely valid I feel. I will also tell you the truth whether it hurts or not. I have sit for hours and watched the chat, and seen over and over how people degrade Xpendable to a point that it has now become SICK. I know many of the people in Xpendable going wayyyy back, and their game play is based on Honor, experience and knowledge of the game, as well as the dynamics of the building a character and using it beyond more than I have seen play PW. Ganking is most definitely grief playing and since I came back, Epic has fallen into the trap of unfair game play. You have players and top Guild puff themselves up, slap at their chest like an ape, and attack as though they are billy bad azz's, and then say oh wait let me call on 4 others and take this person out. That is NOT PvP or 1v1, which is how the game intended player fighting to be. It is called PK *player killing*, which is Griefing. Don't believe me take the time to do your research, most games now are putting a stop to it. I am also, disappointed in Agatio as I know the way Epic has become; nothing more than a place for bully's to call home is no where what he claimed himself to want, and also you mute or ban when they (Xpendable) bring help, you are doing nothing more than allowing the this crap to continue. I am going to give this server some good advice, Never Never underestimate a guild (Xpendable) who's foundation is based on Morals and Honor or you just might get bit in the butt.

Hugs,

Aimee


You said you dont take sides. Seems you spoke mostly about Xpendables there. About how they are 'honorable' and what not. You took their side by telling us how honorable they are and that you know them from waaayyy back. What we need is an opinion from someone who doesnt know any of the guilds personally or players in the guilds. Someone speak up about this who isnt in the ganking guilds (90% of guilds gank.)

Offline Feone

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I think Ill be the first here to actually answer the questions in the original post :)


Q1. How is it possible for a single guild to "Gank" when whole server is allied against them? There is TeamPH, NoHomo, UnderOath, Legendz and many other guilds who are all allies and kill, or at least try to kill any Xpendable on sight. Xpendable has at max around 20 to 30 active members (taking out alts and people who don't play), which is much lower than many other guilds. Our server has over 9000 votes on Gtop 100, you can guess the number of players on our server (and at least 25 to 40% people PK) from that number based on how many times a person can vote, and probably how many people vote from alt accounts if possible.

I myself left NoHomo because they would even gank my alt on sight, without regard of what faction, if any at all, it was in. Ganking is part of pk, EVERYONE does it. West archo is a place PVP guilds try to capture and hold under controll over the rest of the guilds.

Q2. Have you ever seen Xpendable being ganked? If there is a fight between 1 guild vs Whole server, who has a higher chance of getting ganked? Even if not all guilds who pk fight together all the time, all allied guilds will always have more numbers than Xpendable.

Xpendable is ALWAYS being ganked and has ALWAYS been ganked by several other big PK factions. In this they are no different from other smaller guilds starting up. The difference is this one bites back.

Q3. Does your guild helps you when you are getting Ganked? In Xpendable, when a member is getting ganked he/she can ask for help and most of the time he/she will get help. Is your guild also like that? Or you are not helped and are only left with World Chat to vent out your frustration or hatred? How many friends you have in your guild, friends on whom you can depend on?

Some guilds yes, others no.

Q4. How many of your guild mates who PK as team players? How many of your guild mates are skilled players and how many are still learning their class (an estimate?)

Varies greatly per faction.

Q5. How seriously you take this game? How many hours of your real life time you spend playing it. What would cause you more pain, you failing an important test in school/college/univ or your account getting hacked?

Irrelevant.

Q6. Do you Gank? And at the same time expect yourself to be treated differently?

Yes I gank, no I don't.

Q7. Would you fly/walk into a PK Guild which does not makes any ally in a PK zone with your character's PK mode enabled expecting to have some nice chit chat or telling them how cool you are?

Nop, I walk in and try to nuke one or two if I get attacked.

Q8. Is Life fair? Who do innocent and sometimes intelligent people have to suffer due to ignorance of the masses, greed of the bankers/other human beings, corruption of the governments, inherent stupidity of human beings, why are Capitalists are allowed to privatize profit but socialize losses? There are so many other scenario which can be provided.

Irrelevant.


I'll prolly draw a lot of hate with this but the way I see it:
When I started playing here (A little bit after NoHomo was formed by some friends of mine) IMP and J4F ruled the server. Despite them outnumbering us vastly we would be a massive pain to their PK because of being a small group of experienced players with good teamwork. People constantly hated on NoHomo in worldchat because of this.
Another guild new at the time was AsToooG!! They also worked together well in a small group and would never back down trying for west over and over. They also received a huge amount of hate in worldchat.
IMP and J4F fell apart due to various reasons and NoHomo/AsToooG!! grew into quite sizeable factions who now dominated pk. (AsToooG!! Pretty much switching to TeamPH somewhere along the line there).
They both PKed eachother for a while, then allied for a bit when a lot of ex j4f joined Elysium. Then once Elysium lost many of these people again they went back to being enemies for a bit.  During this Xpendables also started to rise, growing a bit bigger being a small faction with several experienced players that work together well.  Again the big, established factions used to dominating pk find themselves getting their asses kicked by a much smaller force. Rage ensues. At this point Elysium, NexNation, NoHomo, Eternal, TeamPH, EpicHomo, UnderOath and Im sure several factions I missed are allied up for the solo purpose of fighting of Xpendables. Not only this they also feel the need to name characters after them, trashtalk in worldchat (mainly from safezone) and other general bashing.
The way I see it it's no different from what J4F & IMP used to do when they got their asses kicked by a far smaller force. It's very understandable that you'd be mad when you dominate pk and along comes this little bug that roundhousekicks you back into safezone.

Also to those that fail to see the difference, there are two kinds of QQ about ganking.

1: Boohoooo im always alone my faction never backs me up and I keep getting owned by several ppl.
^ legit (sort of) QQ about ganking ruining your pk. Possibly should find a better faction that does pk.
2: LOLOLOLOL you took 10 people to kill me you fail.
^troll


Oh and to those QQing Xpendable doesnt 1v1. You'll find several of the members begging in worldchat for 1v1's and nobody wanting to fight said people. Also they are by faction rule required to accept 1v1s if asked.


Oh and finally, for the sake of completion. I went to the massive efford of walking out of west to take this screenshot of a very normal sight there. Guess what, it's NoHomo, Vengeance, TeamPH, Elysium + allies ganking everything else on sight :D, the very people QQing about getting ganked by Xpendables.

Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 11:05 am by Eriphenio

Offline Shekinah

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I agree with the paragraph of history Eriphenio stated above. Interesting that all that happened in just over three months. I guess the life span of factions here are short and even many of the good players listed in the "Best of class" threads have retired toons or moved on. All said and done, this can be a short game if one chooses it to be so.

From observations, one reason why people gank is the pack mentality. (In humans known as the theory of human motivation by Abraham Maslov in 1943)  These five levels of motivation or five needs that humans strive to satisfy are, in order: Survival, Safety, Social, Esteem, and Fulfilment.

Thus,  there is little loyalty to factions as well. People like to move to where they foresee a stronger pack and of course it feels good to win and have an active faction to achive those needs - pvp, tw etc.  This could partly stem from how much of this game can be played solo or duo, rather than forging  longer friendships with need for regular squad work.

Echoing what many have said before, if you aren't prepared to be mauled by a pack 1) don't go white 2) join an active pk faction and hope it stays strong 3) don't take it so personally its just a game :)

GMs do already try to organise pvp events.  Perhaps more of such events could be held to satisfy peoples needs? Otherwise, there are other areas people challenge each other such as at the shrine or isle of misfortune where less ganking occurs.

Offline Ste_

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You couldnt be more wrong Feone. The reason for us out there was 'Legendz' were ganking members from all the factions out there. We were called to help, so please, before you post stuff saying we're ganking every faction, get your facts first.